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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (240022)	8/28/2007 3:04:53 AM
From: Elroy	Respond to of 281500

Ramadan start date to differ again By Habib Toumi, Bureau Chief Published: August 27, 2007, 23:06 gulfnews.com Manama: Pinning the start of Ramadan this year will again be a point of debate in the Muslim world as 1.2 billion Muslims will most likely begin observing Ramadan on three different days, a professor in Bahrain said. "Muslims in at least one country will start fasting on September 12 while the others will begin either on September 13 or 14," Dr Waheeb Al Nasser yesterday said in a statement to the press. "I believe that Libya will be the first country to announce the start of Ramadan on September 12," said the physics professor at the University of Bahrain. Social divisions The start of Ramadan, the ninth month of the lunar-based Islamic calendar, has been a source of heated debate among Muslims upset over how countries are claiming sightings on different dates and starting the month on different days. The clash is mainly between conservatives who insist on seeing the moon with the naked eye, in line with a literal interpretation of Islamic principles. This is in contrast to those who call for the use of astronomical calculations to predict the start of the month. For the naked-eye sightings, varying geographical and weather conditions mean that people in different locations cannot see the appearance of the moon, making Muslims around the world fast on different days. However, the strict interpretation of the visibility stipulation is increasingly becoming a source of national and social divisions, defeating the call for unity preached by Islam during the sacred month. "It is regrettable that some countries still reject any role for astronomers in determining the first and last days of Ramadan. "I sincerely wish that the committee of the scholars who decide on the first day of Ramadan and the start of Eid would use science and astronomy," Al Nasser said. Religious scholars should reconsider their views about technology and astronomy by following the example of Saudi Arabia which has recently built 11 astronomy observatories and launched a satellite, he said.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (240022)	8/28/2007 10:52:38 AM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

You are lying again. "You insult anyone who points out what Salafis believe and the arguments they make and claim it's all "propaganda". Then when you can't just dismiss their texts, you claim that I'm saying it's the "true Islam". I know what those beliefs are, at least the one's you have referred to and I condemn them as a corruption of decency, of God's message to human beings and to the common human condition of decency. I don't insult anyone who points out those beliefs because I point out those beliefs as a corruption committed by extremists. You, however, condemn all Muslims in your insistance that this is a valid and universal interpretation of Islam, which is unjustified and extremely bigoted hatred. I declare lies to be lies when I see them. You have lied about my statements and my position on Islam several times and when I catch you I declare that, "You are lieing again." If you consider me telling the truth about your lies to be an insult, you might consider being honest so that it doesn't keep happening. You seem to care or you wouldn't be objecting although you contradict yourself alot so who knows. I have stated repeatedly that terrorists and Islamic radicals are corrupt and any of them engaging in terror activities should be killed where they are found. I have exposed this doctrine you keep promoting as standard Islam to be a contextual corruption of the Quranic message for human beings. You call me an apologist and accuse me of supporting Islamic fundamentalists but You are lieing again. I have shown you how the doctrines and history of Islam is corrupted using these texts, which is the way that terrorists use it in attempts to justify terrorist acts, and self serving bigots like you use the texts to rally hatred for Muslims. Hint: The only winner in the game of bigotry are the one's who refuse to play. You might get some mileage out of someone who hates what ever group you think you are helping by your bigotry but you wont get anywhere with me. No extremist/terrorist act is justified ever by Islam or by you or by the simple human condition we all share in common. You suggest that Islam is different and that any Muslim is engaging in taqiyya (lies, permitted when you are threatened or tortured, which some but not all brands of Islam endorse, Note: I never lie) if they try to tell others that Muslims can and should live in peace under an autonomous egalitarian form of government like democracy. First that is a corruption of the notion of taqiya. Then you use the corrupt doctrine of terrorists to try to prove it, accusing anyone suggesting terrorists are corrupt and have hijacked an otherwise peace loving religion of being apologists (That would include Bush Nadine). Then you say I have defended the extremist doctrine as an apologist using taqiyya to hide the truth. Tsk, guess what? Yep, You are lying again. Peace with Muslims is not only justifiable in Islam but the only practical and decent venue I will continue to argue for that in spite of you and your bigoted denials. What you are doing dear girl is propaganda, it is false, prejudicial, bigotry plain and simple. If you are offended by that fact then stop conducting yourself in such a manner. You know it and I know it. It is very transparent for any thinking person as well. I condemn terrorism and radical extremism and will continue to condemn your bigoted extremism as I continue to see it. When you want to stop your lieing extremism feel free to stop, feel free to continue if that is your option as well. If you are feeling insulted about it, that's between your conduct in the world and your conscience about the condition of your soul...not my business. Have a nice day, Gem