Live Blogging the G.O.P. Debate
September 5, 2007, 9:00 pm
By Katharine Q. Seelye
thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com
9 p.m. Kickoff: Hi everyone. Welcome to the Republican debate tonight. It’s in Durham, N.H., but we’ve pulled up a chair in New York to watch it just the way you are, on TV. And what an introduction. Fred Thompson, who isn’t on stage tonight, just aired a spot during the final minutes of The O’Reilly Factor to catch those who may have tuned in early.
We can’t remember what he said in the ad, but that’s not as important as his poke in the eye to the eight Republicans who are waiting to engage each other. (And more thunder-stealing: Mr. Thompson declared “I’m running for president of the United States,” during a taping of “The Tonight Show With Jay Leno” earlier this evening.)
The show opened with a word from the debate’s co-sponsor, the chairman of the New Hampshire Republican Party, who made a point of thanking the candidates who have actually showed up — a dig, obviously at Mr. Thompson.
9:08 p.m. Take Your Shots: And the first question is about “the man who isn’t here.” Has Mr. Thompson, who declares his candidacy tomorrow, made the smarter move by not being here? Mike Huckabee starts off, saying he’d rather be in New Hampshire. Ron Paul, star of the Internet, said Mr. Thompson will dilute the pro-war vote, which will help him because he’s the anti-war candidate. John McCain said “Maybe we’re up past his bedtime,” and says people of N.H. expect to see you — a lot. Get out into the arena Fred, Mr. McCain said, “It’s a lot of fun.” Mitt Romney takes the sarcastic route: “Why the hurry? Why not take some more time off? Maybe January, February might be a better time to make a final decision about getting in this race.”
Rudolph Giuliani said: “I like Fred a lot. I think Fred is a really, really good man. I think he’s done a pretty good job of playing my part on “Law & Order. I personally prefer the real thing, and — but I think Fred will add something to this race. But I think this is a nomination you have to earn, though.”
9:14 p.m. Immigration: The first real question is about immigration and gives Mr. Romney, Mr. Giuliani and Mr. McCain a chance to square off on an issue that has divided Republicans. Why would Mr. Romney be tough on immigrants if he didn’t know that the guy mowing his lawn was undocumented? Mr. Romney said that most people don’t go to their contractors and inspect their papers. Mr. Romney then went after Mr. Giuliani for turning New York into a “sanctuary city” and says “amnesty is not the right answer to the immigration problem.”
Mr. McCain took the chance to align himself with President Bush, noting that they are both from border states.
Mr. Huckabee said the whole issue should be outsourced to FedEx and UPS because they can track packages better than we can track immigrants. He says he doesn’t want to be mean-spirited about the whole thing. He’s putting on a pleasant face on the issue, hoping, perhaps, that voters are giving him a second look after his strong showing in the straw poll in Iowa.
Mr. Giluiani comes back with a tough stance, though he avoids saying why his views don’t amount to amnesty. He said we have to stop illegal immigrants from coming in at our borders. He says a physical fence isn’t enough and calls for lots of electronic monitoring equipment and a single ID card. Still, he said, legal immigrants should be encouraged. Mr. Romney goes back to calling for an end to “sanctuary cities” but he’s not making it clear in this answer how he differs from what Mr. Giuliani just said.
9:29 p.m. Abortion: The candidates are asked about abortion. Mr. Romney, who says states should decide whether to legalize abortion, seems unprepared for a question about how he could let abortion be legal in some parts of the country and not in others.
Mr. Huckabee makes a bizarre analogy between the unborn fetus and the miners lost in Utah.
9:32 p.m. Guns: Mr. Giuliani, asked about gun control, takes a casual slap at Mr. Romney, former governor of Massachusetts, noting that crime was lower in New York than in, oh, say, Boston while Mr. Giuliani was mayor of New York. But so far this is all pretty civilized and calm. Where are those sparks that we were told to expect?
Did Ron Paul just say that if we respected the second amendment, there would be a smaller chance of 9/11 happening? CLARIFICATION: We see from the transcript that Mr. Paul was suggesting that if the pilots had been allowed to carry weapons, they might have stopped the terrorists on 9/11.
9:38 p.m. Commercial Break: Here we are at the first break after half an hour. Things seem pretty tame on stage.
9:43 p.m. Iraq: Mr. Romney, when asked about the president’s surge policy in Iraq, said tonight that the surge seems to be working. The “seems to be working” seems to bug Mr. McCain. He sprang to life for a minute and strongly asserted that the surge is indeed working.
Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee got into a little scrum during the discussion. From the transcript:
Mr. Huckabee: Congressman, we are one nation. We can’t be divided. We have to be one nation under God. That means if we make a mistake, we make it as a single country, the United States of America, not the divided states of America. (Cheers.)
Mr. Paul: No. When we make a mistake — (interrupted by applause) — when we make a mistake, it is the obligation of the people through their representatives to correct the mistake, not to continue the mistake! (Cheers, applause.)
Mr. Huckabee: And that’s what we do on the floor of the –
Mr. Paul: No! We’ve dug a hole for ourselves and we dug a hole for our party!
We’re losing elections and we’re going down next year if we don’t change it, and it has all to do with foreign policy, and we have to wake up to this fact.
Mr. Huckabee: Even if we lose elections, we should not lose our honor, and that is more important to the Republican Party.
Mr. Paul: We’re losing — we’ve lost over — (Cheers) — we have lost — we have lost 5,000 Americans killed in — we’ve lost over 5,000 Americans over there in Afghanistan and Iraq and plus the civilians killed. How many more do you want to lose? How long are we going to be there? How long — what do we have to pay to save face? That’s all we’re doing is saving face. It’s time we came home!
9:55 p.m. Ron’s People: Lots of hoots and hollers and cheering for Ron Paul, the only anti-war candidate on stage. He has some strong backers in the audience.
9:58 p.m. Young’s Restaurant: This is interesting. Carl Cameron, a Fox reporter, is talking with New Hampshire voters who are watching the debate at a local restaurant and he says these voters feel the candidates are skirting the questions. You don’t usually get commentary on the candidates’ debate performances during a debate. Also at the restaurant, one of the diners, Mark Riss, who has a son serving in Iraq, criticized Mr. Romney for a statement he made last month when he suggested that his sons, who had not served in the military, were serving the country by helping with his campaign.
From the transcript:
Mr. Riss: Yes, what I’m obviously most interested in is how we can bring in an end game to the war in Iraq, and yet, still do it so that it’s a victory for us and a victory for a people of Iraq.
And my question is to Governor Romney, and that is I’ve heard the other people up there articulate themselves a little bit better. But, in your answer, I didn’t hear how you would end it. I didn’t hear an end game plan from you, and I would like a response on that.
And also, along those same lines, sir, a comment. I don’t think you fully understand how offended my wife and I were, and probably the rest of the people who have sons, daughters, husbands and wives serving in the war on terror to compare your son’s attempts to get you elected to my son’s service in Iraq.
(APPLAUSE)
I know you apologized a couple of days later after a firestorm started, but it was wrong, sir, and you never should have said it.
Mr. Romney: Well, there is no comparison, of course. There’s no question but that the honor that we have for men and women who serve in our armed forces is a place of honor we will never forget and nothing compares to it.
10:03 p.m. More on the Surge: Mr. Romney just demonstrated why some voters view him as slick. He said, again, that the surge “looks” successful. Pressed by Brit Hume, the moderator, as to whether the surge was in fact successful or not, Mr. Romney said he believes it is successful but he wants to wait to see what General Petraeus’s report says next week. So is he distancing himself from the president? He seemed to find himself in a semantic thicket and wound up concluding that the Democrats would lead us into chaos.
10:13 p.m. The Pledge: Mr. McCain is subdued but self-confident tonight, as if he’s decided to cast off the yoke of calculation and just say what he thinks, regardless of the popularity of his views. No torture of prisoners. No point in signing a pledge not to increase taxes, a pledge that most of the other candidates (except Mr. Giuliani) have signed. Mr. Giuliani said he won’t sign the pledge because, “It’s a matter of principle. I think if you’re president of the United States, you take one pledge: to uphold the Constitution of the United States.”
10:20 p.m. Back to Young’s: A voter at the restaurant asks Mr. Giuliani about family values; the voter says he he doesn’t seem as strong a picture of family values “as Mitt might present.”
Mr. Giuliani directs voters to look at his work experience. He steers them away, again, from 9/11. “I’m not talking about September 11th,” he says. He says he’s running as a human being who has been “very successful as a leader,” taking on the organized crime, reducing crime, reducing the welfare rolls, and managing an unmanageable city. “Any issues in my private life do not reflect my public performance,” he concludes, to tepid applause.
10:30 p.m. It’s Over: Mr. McCain gets the last word and invokes Ronald Reagan. He says it was more than a coincidence that Mr. Reagan took the oath of office in 1981 on the same day that the American hostages in Iran were released. And he said he would be guided by Mr. Reagan’s principles.
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