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Politics : THE WHITE HOUSE -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GROUND ZERO™ who wrote (8485)	9/10/2007 10:21:57 AM
From: Gersh Avery	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 25737

" the iraqi people are generally happy to see us, it is the al quaida jihadists who fight us in iraq, and most all of them come from iran." You listed three points in that one partial sentence. 1) "the iraqi people are generally happy to see us," What about the families of dead Iraqies who were collateral damage? I haven't heard any numbers lately about how many Iraqi dead have been generated by our benevolent activity. Is it still below 100,000 humans? I'm sure that it is well over 10,000 humans. That would be over three times the number of 9/11 dead. Why would they be happy instead of livid? 2) "it is the al quaida jihadists who fight us in iraq" Wow .. Who told you that? The government? Tell me .. if you saw some armed people headed toward your house, would you defend your family or do nothing and hope for the best? 3) "and most all of them come from iran." I thought it was from Saudi Arabia. When did that change? I'm guessing about the time GWB figured it might be a good idea to kick their asses. 4) "but don't you know this already?" I don't automatically accept government generated, biased information as truth. Think about it: Our presence there is supposed to irritate radicals in the region to the point that they attack us. We are there to deliberately piss people off. So if they get pissed at us, that is what we tried to get done. How pissed do we want them to get? Pissed off enough to try to kill us. That way we can justify killing them. We are causing the problem. BTW .. I voted for Bush both times. I argued for him both times. I argued that we had no choice but to go after those responsible for 9/11. After all this time, we never really got around to it. All we have done is to provide poster material for al quaida recruitment in an area that had little such activity before we went there.

To: GROUND ZERO™ who wrote (8485)	9/10/2007 10:36:55 AM
From: DuckTapeSunroof	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 25737

"the iraqi people are generally happy to see us" Is that why they answer (in the high eighty percent range) that we are 'occupiers' and they want to US to leave? Or, is that why well more then HALF answer that it is 'morally OK' to kill Americans to end the occupation? (That seems a pretty funny definition for 'happy to see us'.... :-(

To: GROUND ZERO™ who wrote (8485)	9/10/2007 11:12:19 AM
From: DuckTapeSunroof	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 25737

Re: "it is the al quaida jihadists who fight us in iraq, and most all of them come from iran... but don't you know this already?" That statement is WRONG on so many levels I scarcely know where to begin.... Firstly, al Qaeda is *SUNNI* for God's sake! NOT Shiite (Iranians are Shiite). And, not Persian. So, NO, al Qaeda doesn't 'come from Iran'! <GGG> Furthermore, al Qaeda is a fundamentalist / extremist offshoot *of the (Saudi originated, and Saudi sponsored) Wh'abbist branch of the Sunni religion. They and the state-sponsored fundamentalists of Iran are blood enemies and rivals! Secondly, (according to the US MILITARY, who are measuring by kills and captures), around 70% or so of ALL 'foreign insurgent fighters' in Iraq come from Saudi Arabia* (with others from most every Islamic country one can name...) but 'probably less then 5% or so of the fighters are al Qaeda, or other religiously inspired foreign jihadist fighters'. The greatest BULK of the fighters opposing US forces are native IRAQIS (whether they be Sunnis, or radical Shiites....) So, again... NO. 'Most of the fighters' opposing us in Iraq DON'T 'come from Iran. (Actually, very very few do. They have no need to infiltrate fighters --- because they have excellent official relations with the Shiite-dominated Iraqi Government! In fact, you can find a few Iranian 'diplomats' or 'military advisors' in most of the government ministries, especially the Interior Ministry. After all, Iraq does have a mutual defense treaty and a 'friendship' treaty with Iran now... very unlike when the Sunnis dominated under Saddam! :-) (And, although the SUNNI foreign jihadist fighters such as the 'al Qaeda' types likely do a disproportionate amount of damage --- what with their suicide bombings and such --- compared to the larger numbers of local Iraqis given to taking pot shots at our guys, or going out at night to plant IEDs in the roadways, etc., much of al Qaeda's attacks have been aimed at the SHIITES of Iraq (The Golden Dome bombings, market place bombings, police barracks bombings, etc.) not so much the much better defended American forces.) >>> I don't see how you could ever have any realistic hope of 'winning' anything... if you can't even identify the fighters and the causes they work for....