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To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (219745)	9/14/2007 11:59:39 PM
From: skinowski	Respond to of 793888

Brains without learning equals cunning and thieving? LOL! Maybe... maybe not. Just remember that you are quoting and arguing here with Murray, not me... :) Perhaps you should consider reading the article, Nadine. To me the genetic aspects of this issue are interesting - and I think that Murray's hypotheses are impressive. For one thing, he offers a better explanation for the evidence of "elevated intelligence" among Jews even prior to Crusades, to Chmelnicki - and most other Euro persecutions.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (219745)	9/15/2007 3:35:37 PM
From: skinowski	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793888

winnowing-by-persecution logic I decided to post this because I remembered something which, actually, supports your line of thinking, Nadine. Some time ago I leafed through a book - and read some of it - about the history of German Jews. They had a great period in Germany - after people like Moses Mendelssohn were able to break down many of the social (and legal) barriers and achieved some degree of emancipation - in the mid to late 1700's. However, prior to that, for at least a few centuries Jews were treated very badly. In order to obtain and keep permits to live in German towns Jews had to pay amounts of money which were enormous back in those days. And the permits were not for families, but for individuals. After children reached a certain age, they had to come up with the money, or - they would be expelled and not allowed to reenter the town. My impression was that very large numbers of people perished this way. They had to live in the woods, in the wild, where life was, as they say, brief and brutal. Apparently, many Jews became prominent highway robbers; it was either live - or die. So.... I do believe that a few centuries of such "selection" of the richest and most successful individuals may have played a part in "elevating" their average intelligence as a group. I still think that previous events - as described by Murray - played an earlier and more crucial part - but there is no doubt that the process was multifactorial.