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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Peter Dierks who wrote (243546)	10/1/2007 12:27:52 AM
From: c.hinton	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

If i might just point out that with 1600 years of islam only the last few years get talked about with regard to henious violence. Would not that imply that outside forces are influencing the religion...ie nationalism.

To: Peter Dierks who wrote (243546)	10/1/2007 10:32:21 AM
From: one_less	Respond to of 281500

"Gem, while I respect you in many ways, the attitudes you express about the anti social crimes of the muslim world is not adding to it." Which attitude are you concerned about? Here is the attitude I expressed in the post you are responding to. "Where there are brutal and heinous crimes or any injustice, for that matter, we should all join in condemning it ... each and every one of them regardless of the perps demographic or our own affiliations." What part of that statement bothers you? "As an apologist for the heinous crimes of the Muslim world you help provide cover for those who refuse to condemn their own." That my friend is a convenient yet invalid allegation, one that has become codespeak for shutting up anyone who is willing to speak up, especially for silencing the voices of all Muslims. I have posted many thousands of times on SI and you have known me for years. Maybe you can link to some of the posts where I have excused heinous crimes, committed by anyone. There must be hundreds if your characterisation is accurate, or many, or a few, how about one? You wont because I have never apologized for any human being's conduct but my own. Link or lie Peter. "I do condemn the escalating levels of sexual perversion expressed by secular Hallywood, which not too oddly the rest of the world mistakes for Christian American values. I condemn violent crime and the recent spate of bizarre school crimes caused by doves passing laws prohibiting legally licensed people from carrying fire arms on campuses. I condemn the social disfunction caused by the images broadcast daily by the secular media." Good for you and I. "But again, you are pointing to secular caused problems and blaming it on Christians. No I am not. Here is what I pointed out... "People who are prejudiced against America like to point out ..." I am not one of those people. I am not prejudiced against America, I stand behind America 100%, and do not find those social ills to be born of Christianity. You missed the point because you are operating on a double standard. You choose to dismiss 1 billion Muslims as innocent of the deeds performed by a small percentage of heinous criminal terrorists and some injustice you see in foreign governments. Your perspective is blame it on the Muslims and on Islam. I don't represent the counterpart of that but there are plenty of people just like you who do represent that counterpart. If you find that to be offensive then change it, starting with yourself. I was hoping you would see the issue more clearly if you saw how bigoted that is. You did see how wrong it was for people who hate America to blame bad conduct committed by Christians on Christianity or on Christians in general but you hold a double standard for yourself when you blame Muslims and Islam in general. "You accuse me of bigotry for expecting the same level of decency from others as I expect from myself, from those who I choose to associate with and from those who represent our society." Not true. I expect you to be a model of decency starting with being able to remove the log of prejudice from your own eye. "What you ignore is that while there ... All muslims have to do is condemn the heinous acts and cast the perpetrators out so they can receive justice and they will change they image they present. " Posted by me on your thread: Message 23561211 I have ignored no such thing. It is you who ignores the fact that this a false allegation perpetrated by you and other bigots. When Muslims condemn Muslims for heinous brutality you and others call it taqiya. When Muslims oppose the terrorism and heinous brutality of other Muslims you focus your light on that and call it just another example of Muslim violence on Muslims. In otherwords you present a no win, no way out, option for Muslims and then you blame them for not choosing a win option that would help us all out. Heinous criminals and especially the terrorist sort perpetrate events to disorient societies by spreading fear among friends, families, or similar others who could be targeted. The fear is exacerbated by the fact that we have no way of knowing who will be hit, by whom, how it will occur, when or where to expect the attack. When the terrorist is ghost like it adds to the scary effect. The cumulative effect of not knowing the source or where or when it will surface, but that the event could be devastating, is a paranoid psychosis that is contagious. The worst thing we could do is to act our our paranoid psychosis by attacking innocents who look like the ghosts, lumping all of one demographic into one group to justify persecution and ultimately extermination. The smartest thing we could do would be to bring the innocents into our circle by declaring the terrorists to be a common enemy. So only the ghost like terrorists remain on the outside, then they have no place to hide and their camouflage becomes transparent. You have a choice. Finish this statement for me, or make excuses for not doing so. United we stand, divided we ....