To: GraceZ who wrote (94639 ) 11/13/2007 2:15:01 PM From: ahhaha Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 306849 They were strong in the 90s as well No, they weren't. You must distinguish between income growth built on debt and speculation, and income growth built on tax cuts and reduced macro constraints. The former doesn't last. The latter gets stronger indefinitely. but RE still floundered for most of the decade. Can't agree with you on that. We have to distinguish again between RE price inflation and house building. People will need those strong incomes to pay for the houses they already bought considering a lot of people already spent their future higher incomes. By strong income growth I mean growth in income that exceeds such need. Tell me households are forming faster, raising the number of units required and then maybe I'll buy into a more rosy scenario for new housing. Wrong requirement. What you were talking about is the ability to afford rather than the demographic force to grow. The latter won't be as significant as it was in past. Give me another 1/2 billion in inventory write downs and a price 70% of THAT book and maybe I'll be converted. When you get that info the stock will be trading at 50.As I've said in the past, I like the company and I think they survive. In order to survive they need to lay off some of those 20 something Jessicas, Trishes and Heathers they hired during the boom. They need to cut back until they get to combat hardened troops that have lived through stagnant RE prices. But that isn't an impediment to what will make them go. That's easy enough to do. Maybe employee cost isn't as big of a drag as you think. Sometimes you have to think in terms of swallowing expense to retain qualified personnel.Prices might, but unit sales are limited by household formation and it's units that make the real difference as to whether the company grows or contracts even though profit comes mainly from the rising value of held land. Now we're talking about product differentiation within markets rather than the big bogey, macroeconomic implications of "Perfect Storm" unclarity. That's where brand name comes in. Didn't you say that old man Ryland is a tough sucker? Didn't you say he was old school capable? That's the element that seems to be missing in all flat and dreary assessments floating around these days usually dealing with inventory in RE, and inventory of paper in the et al. They omit the ability of individuals operating under incentives to create solutions.RYL is price indifferent to some extent, in that they have a wide range of product. Still, to be profitable near term, they are limited on the downside by the cost of the land they already own or control. Write it down again and it's a new ball game. I see that as a sunk cost.I don't think prices are going back to where they were before the boom but land prices standing still would still require a different business model for all the HBs. Price will fall some fixed percentage and then stay there indefinitely. You can bet on that. The distorting bs is over.They made the bulk of their profit in the last five years on the difference between the price they paid for land and what they were able to sell it for (underneath their houses). In the future they will have to earn based on the quality of house they build. They need to build houses with features like solar embedded in the ceiling as a standard, self sufficient houses that are still cost competitive. It can be done. This feature aspect will replace the location mantrum.