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Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Sully- who wrote (63278)11/16/2007 1:17:43 PM
From: Sully-  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 90947
 
Hat tip to Peter Dierks

The Insanity of Bush Hatred

Our politics suffer when passions overcome reason and vitriol becomes virtue.

BY PETER BERKOWITZ
Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:01 a.m. EST

Hating the president is almost as old as the republic itself. The people, or various factions among them, have indulged in Clinton hatred, Reagan hatred, Nixon hatred, LBJ hatred, FDR hatred, Lincoln hatred, and John Adams hatred, to mention only the more extravagant hatreds that we Americans have conceived for our presidents.

But Bush hatred is different. It's not that this time members of the intellectual class have been swept away by passion and become votaries of anger and loathing. Alas, intellectuals have always been prone to employ their learning and fine words to whip up resentment and demonize the competition. Bush hatred, however, is distinguished by the pride intellectuals have taken in their hatred, openly endorsing it as a virtue and enthusiastically proclaiming that their hatred is not only a rational response to the president and his administration but a mark of good moral hygiene.

This distinguishing feature of Bush hatred was brought home to me on a recent visit to Princeton University. I had been invited to appear on a panel to debate the ideas in Princeton professor and American Prospect editor Paul Starr's excellent new book, "Freedom's Power: The True Force of Liberalism." To put in context Prof. Starr's grounding of contemporary progressivism in the larger liberal tradition, I recounted to the Princeton audience an exchange at a dinner I hosted in Washington in June 2004 for several distinguished progressive scholars, journalists, and policy analysts.

To get the conversation rolling at that D.C. dinner--and perhaps mischievously--I wondered aloud whether Bush hatred had not made rational discussion of politics in Washington all but impossible. One guest responded in a loud, seething, in-your-face voice, "What's irrational about hating George W. Bush?" His vehemence caused his fellow progressives to gather around and lean in, like kids on a playground who see a fight brewing.

Reluctant to see the dinner fall apart before drinks had been served, I sought to ease the tension. I said, gently, that I rarely found hatred a rational force in politics, but, who knows, perhaps this was a special case. And then I tried to change the subject.

But my dinner companion wouldn't allow it. "No," he said, angrily. "You started it. You make the case that it's not rational to hate Bush." I looked around the table for help. Instead, I found faces keen for my response. So, for several minutes, I held forth, suggesting that however wrongheaded or harmful to the national interest the president's policies may have seemed to my progressive colleagues, hatred tended to cloud judgment, and therefore was a passion that a citizen should not be proud of being in the grips of and should avoid bringing to public debate. Propositions, one might have thought, that would not be controversial among intellectuals devoted to thinking and writing about politics.

But controversial they were. Finally, another guest, a man I had long admired, an incisive thinker and a political moderate, cleared his throat, and asked if he could interject. I welcomed his intervention, confident that he would ease the tension by lending his authority in support of the sole claim that I was defending, namely, that Bush hatred subverted sound thinking. He cleared his throat for a second time. Then, with all eyes on him, and measuring every word, he proclaimed, "I . . . hate . . . the . . . way . . . Bush . . . talks."

And so, I told my Princeton audience, in the context of a Bush hatred and a corollary contempt for conservatism so virulent that it had addled the minds of many of our leading progressive intellectuals, Prof. Starr deserved special recognition for keeping his head in his analysis of liberalism and progressivism. Then I got on with my prepared remarks.

But as at that D.C. dinner in late spring of 2004, so again in early autumn 2007 at dinner following the Princeton panel, several of my progressive colleagues seized upon my remarks against giving oneself over to hatred. And they vigorously rejected the notion. Both a professor of political theory and a nationally syndicated columnist insisted that I was wrong to condemn hatred as a passion that impaired political judgment. On the contrary, they argued, Bush hatred was fully warranted considering his theft of the 2000 election in Florida with the aid of the Supreme Court's decision in Bush v. Gore; his politicization of national security by making the invasion of Iraq an issue in the 2002 midterm elections; and his shredding of the Constitution to authorize the torture of enemy combatants.

Of course, these very examples illustrate nothing so much as the damage hatred inflicts on the intellect. Many of my colleagues at Princeton that evening seemed not to have considered that in 2000 it was Al Gore who shifted the election controversy to the courts by filing a lawsuit challenging decisions made by local Florida county election supervisors. Nor did many of my Princeton dinner companions take into account that between the Florida Supreme Court and the U.S. Supreme Court, 10 of 16 higher court judges--five of whom were Democratic appointees--found equal protection flaws with the recount scheme ordered by the intermediate Florida court. And they did not appear to have pondered Judge Richard Posner's sensible observation, much less themselves sensibly observe, that while indeed it was strange to have the U.S. Supreme Court decide a presidential election, it would have been even stranger for the election to have been decided by the Florida Supreme Court.

As for the 2002 midterm elections, it is true that Mr. Bush took the question of whether to use military force against Iraq to the voters, placing many Democratic candidates that fall in awkward positions. But in a liberal democracy, especially from a progressive point of view, aren't questions of war and peace proper ones to put to the people--as Democrats did successfully in 2006?

And lord knows the Bush administration has blundered in its handling of legal issues that have arisen in the war on terror. But from the common progressive denunciations you would never know that the Bush administration has rejected torture as illegal. And you could easily overlook that in our system of government the executive branch, which has principal responsibility for defending the nation, is in wartime bound to overreach--especially when it confronts on a daily basis intelligence reports that describe terrifying threats--but that when checked by the Supreme Court the Bush administration has, in accordance with the system, promptly complied with the law.

In short, Bush hatred is not a rational response to actual Bush perfidy. Rather, Bush hatred compels its progressive victims--who pride themselves on their sophistication and sensitivity to nuance--to reduce complicated events and multilayered issues to simple matters of good and evil. Like all hatred in politics, Bush hatred blinds to the other sides of the argument, and constrains the hater to see a monster instead of a political opponent.

Prof. Starr shows in "Freedom's Power" that tolerance, generosity, and reasoned skepticism are hallmarks of the truly liberal spirit. His analysis suggests that the problem with progressives who have succumbed to Bush hatred is not their liberalism; it's their betrayal of it. To be sure, Prof. Starr rejects Bush administration policies and thinks conservatives have the wrong remedies for what ails America today. Yet at the same time his analysis suggests, if not a cure for those who have already succumbed, at least a recipe for inoculating others against hating presidents to come.

The recipe consists above all in recognizing that constitutional liberalism in America "is the common heritage of both modern conservatives and modern liberals, as those terms are understood in the Anglo-American world," writes Prof. Starr. We are divided not by our commitment to the Constitution but by disagreements--often, to be sure, with a great deal of blood and treasure at stake--over how to defend that Constitution and secure its promise of liberty under law.

The conflict between more conservative and more liberal or progressive interpretations of the Constitution is as old as the document itself, and a venerable source of the nation's strength. It is wonderful for citizens to bring passion to it. Recognizing the common heritage that provides the ground for so many of the disagreements between right and left today will encourage both sides, if not to cherish their opponents, at least to discipline their passions and make them an ally of their reason.

Mr. Berkowitz is a senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution and a professor at George Mason University School of Law.

opinionjournal.com



To: Sully- who wrote (63278)11/17/2007 7:12:24 AM
From: Sully-  Respond to of 90947
 
Hat tip to Tim Fowler

A series of comments to a blog post about Cambodia, with Rickm providing the "pretending" or as it would be called on another thread "liberal fiction" -

-----

"Its very important for us to remember it, especially so we can emulate their torture methods."

Posted by Rickm | November 16, 2007 10:20 AM

--

"It" in this case meaning the devastation brought about by the Khmer Rouge. In other words Rickm is implying some sort of significant simularity between a genocidial regime, and Bush's administration because the Bush administration approved the waterboarding of a handful of terrorist, while the Kymer Rouge tortured and killed millions of innocent people, just because the KR may have also used waterboarding (in addition to maiming people, and killing them with pick axes or hammers after forcing them to dig their own graves.

--

Ann nails it in her response


"Rickm -

What exactly are you saying? What has the US done that is even remotely equivalent to what the Khmer Rouge did to Cambodia? I wasn't sure whether it was fair to draw a comparison even to what Mugabe is doing to Zimbabwe, horrible and pointless as that is. I think that you're belittling the suffering of the Cambodians to try to score a few cheap political points against Bush."

Posted by Ann | November 16, 2007 10:33 AM

--

This response also gets it right

"Thanks, Rickm for giving us all the perfect object lesson in utter moral bankruptcy.

I'm going to bookmark this thread so the next time someone asks, "What do you mean by moral equivalence?" I can just point to you.

To be clear.

waterboarding != killing fields"

Posted by daddyquatro | November 16, 2007 11:38 AM

--

A shorter response

"To be clear.

Rickm = asshole"

Posted by Tom | November 16, 2007 12:03 PM

--

and a slightly longer one - I'd note that the comparison to the French in Algeria is also overblown, although not nearly as much -


"For pointing out that the US is emulating the torture techniques of the Khmer Rouge


Rickm, if waterboarding was all the KR ever did, then it wouldn't be worth making the comparison, because the words "Khmer Rouge" wouldn't have any shock value. It's almost as if you called John Bolton "a mixture of Stalin and Hitler" because he has a mustache. Or as if you decided anyone wearing glasses was a member of the elite who oppressed the proleteriat.

The KR are remembered for a shocking and unique genocide whose effects are horrifying even today. Comparing them to Bush either grossly exaggerates Bush's iniquity, or it grossly underestimates that of Pol Pot.

By all means, criticize Bush, I don't care. Heck, compare him to the French in Algeria if you must. But realize that a comparison to Cambodian communists is idiotic even if you can find some similarities."

Posted by Rob Lyman | November 16, 2007 12:33 PM

---

The conversation continues -


Rob-

It would be idiotic if there was a consensus that the torture techniques of Bush et al and were considered torture by the majority of the people in power. But their not. Thus, by comparing Bush's waterboarding to the Khmer Rouge's waterboarding, it makes it much harder to defend the act when Bush does it.

Posted by Rickm | November 16, 2007 12:35 PM

Rickm,

I don't see why the comparison makes it "harder to defend." Presumably Pol Pot had friends to whom he doled out political favors, perhaps including government money. Does that make John Murtha as bad as Pol Pot? Presumably the Stasi encountered and jailed at least some common criminals. Does that make my local DA as bad as East Germany? Presumably the USSR drilled their secret police on hand-to-hand combat. Does that make your average military DI as bad as Stalin?

Waterboarding stands or falls on its own merits. The fact that a horrible regime used it doesn't make it any more or less legitimate, nor does it indicate that our current administration is likely to suddenly switch us to a skull-based economy.

Posted by Rob Lyman | November 16, 2007 12:45 PM

Presumably Pol Pot had friends to whom he doled out political favors, perhaps including government money.

Hard to do when you've eliminated money.

Posted by brooksfoe | November 16, 2007 12:58 PM

I would think that doling out political favours is especially easy after you have eliminated money. If people cannot buy anything on their own account, they will be more dependent on the authorities.

Posted by ad | November 16, 2007 1:11 PM

---


and perhaps the best response of all -


"Rickm wrote: Wow. For pointing out that the US is emulating the torture techniques of the Khmer Rouge, I've been called an a-hole, morally bankrupt, and heartless.


No; you were called those things for taking a thread about the systematic destruction of Cambodian societal knowledge and institutions by the Khmer Rouge, and spinning it completely sideways into a discussion about one of your pet grievances with a current US administration, on the basis of a de-contextualized link that is tenuous at best.

Three US waterboardings under the watch of the Bush adminsitration...verus 1.7 million brutal Cambodian deaths under four years of the Khmer Rouge genocide. To this day you can still visit the memorials and find images of bloody hand prints and blood sprayed in arcs across every surface of the killing chambers. (No, I haven't been there. A friend of mine was, and came back with sobering descriptions and pictures.) And yet somehow, you really think a discussion framed upon the latter is an opportunity to start making pissy points about the former? Seriously, if you aren't just plain heartless, then what were you thinking?

Rickm wrote: Thus, by comparing Bush's waterboarding to the Khmer Rouge's waterboarding, it makes it much harder to defend the act when Bush does it.

Oh, that's what you were thinking. In a word: wrong. You haven't seen anything vaguely resembling the scope of the Khmer Rouge's activity while living under the Bush adminsitration. As Rob Lyman said, like or criticize Bush as much as you like. But at least recognize that your fellow man is not dumb enough to believe that three waterboardings (openly discussed, debated, and criticized, with no fear of reprisal, natch) have a relationship to a genocidal regime that systematically destroyed an entire society. As such, when you attempt to make the comparison, you don't inflict damage on Bush; rather, you heartlessly cheapen the suffering of several million people, and that of their descendents who still live in poverty to this day because of it."

Posted by anony-mouse | November 16, 2007 1:43 PM

---

and to bring my quotation of comments to a close

brooksfoe, I belive the point is that singling ou waterboarding among the awful practices of the Khmer Rouge rather minimizes the behavior of the Khmer Rouge. To employ a mildly hyperbolic analogy, Stalin was a hideously cruel father, but a comment which focused on this aspect of his life, when saying that someone else was emulating Stalin, would be a bit odd.

Posted by Will Allen | November 16, 2007 3:41 PM

"Do you deny that the Khmer Rouge was horrible in part because it used waterboarding?" "No! That's true!"

That's not an entirely fair summary of my response.

As I said in my very first comment on the issue, "if waterboarding was all the KR ever did, then it wouldn't be worth making the comparison, because the words "Khmer Rouge" wouldn't have any shock value."

That is, while waterboarding may have been part of what make the KR bad, it was a pretty tiny part, in comparison to the magnitude of their other crimes. If they had never waterboarded anyone, their reputation would hardly be any better. The only purpose of bringing up KR in a discussion of waterboarding is to import genocide into the discussion in the hopes that the association will rub off on your opponents.

As usual, Will Allen has managed to make my point better than I have.

Posted by Rob Lyman | November 16, 2007 4:21 PM

All comments found at
meganmcardle.theatlantic.com

-----------------------------

Never forget -

wkozak.com
killingfieldsmuseum.com
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
providence.edu