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Politics : The Environmentalist Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (17471)	11/18/2007 8:50:26 PM
From: longnshort	Respond to of 36921

yeah never been a Cyclone there before. It would be better to stop all electricity for those people, no problem there if that happen

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (17471)	11/18/2007 8:55:29 PM
From: average joe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 36921

Sorry Wharf Snoot to sell someone that bill of goods they have to accept some premises which I rejected a very long time ago. Original Sin The doctrine of original sin has received considerable scrutiny from contemporary Christians. The chief dispute centres over the emotional argument of whether an apparently innocent baby can be deemed subject to sin and death. The dispute centres around distinctions between personal sin (i.e. freely willed, conscious and understood) and original sin (not the result of free will). The Augustinian tradition makes a clear distinction between sin which is the result of freely and consciously chosen actions, and the impersonal nature of original sin; namely the unchosen context and situations into which the child is born and which surrounds the baby, and into which the child might be educated and formed. Effectively, the Augustinian teaching says that even though the baby has not made any conscious choice, it is nevertheless personally affected by—and subject to—sin, and that God's grace is essential to give hope and salvation. The Augustinian view is seen by some scholars as a negative view of human nature, since Augustine of Hippo believed that the human race, without God's help, is depraved. Original sin, from the Augustinian perspective, is not a free and individual choice by a baby; but rather the effect of the sum total of "world sin", taught analogously through the story of the sin of Adam and Eve. The Augustinian doctrine of original sin teaches that every individual is born into a broken world where sin is already active; that they are inevitably influenced personally by the actions of others and the consequences of choices made by others. The Augustinian effectively believes that human nature—and hence every individual person—is flawed. The Augustinian remedy for original sin is baptism; the ritual washing away of the unchosen but inevitable condition of birth sin; and a vigorous declaration by Christians that sin shall not prevail, but that God's grace can overpower it with our free cooperation. Some individuals challenge the entire doctrine of original sin as unbiblical, understanding that the children should not be punished for the sins of the fathers. Ezekiel 18:20 states unequivocally that descendants are not to be punished for their parents' sins. On the other hand, Exodus 20:5 says, "I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me." Those who understand original sin as personal guilt and sin, rather than as sin in an analogous sense, are confronted with a yet graver difficulty, particularly if they conceive of sin as a matter of a person's soul as such, rather than of the ensouled body, or enfleshed soul, that is the person. Sin, they say, is an issue of the soul, but, if we inherit our bodies from our parents and our souls from God, then original sin, which is inherited with human nature from our parents, must be a matter of the body; or, if it is a matter of the soul, original sin must come from God. Judaism rejects the concept of the original sin altogether and stresses free will and men's responsibility of their actions rather than religious obedience or faith. Why, they ask, would God, who is, by dogma, universal unconditional Love, create sentient and sapient beings, then intentionally let them become corrupt—and then punish them from generation to generation with eternal torture for simply just being born in the world and for nothing else—and judge people not on their actions but by their faith or its lack—and then by whim save the beings from nothing else but from his very own wrath. Christian churches that deny original sin have differing explanations for the ancient Christian practice of conferring on infants what the Nicene Creed calls the "one baptism for the forgiveness of sins". Several denominations (following anabaptist traditions) deny offering infant baptism altogether and insist that only persons who have reached the "age of accountability" should be baptized. en.wikipedia.org