To: koan who wrote (100392 ) 12/4/2007 1:04:13 PM From: E. Charters Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 313013 Of dogma Plato said: let those who cannot understand "count beads". Oh, those bead counters . I have met many. Funny, I always got bitten by their dogmas when I threw a paper in their yard. You must train your dogmas. Always let sleeping dogmas lie for you. Everywhere the Romans went they seemed to set the people back 1000 years. Too much military order breeds an insipid population lacking synthesis, vigour, imagination and motivation to achieve, and worst of all, intellectual courage. An example is SI mavens insisting we stay on topic. I don't know what the limits of topicality really are, or how they may be maintained, any more than you can define pornography, but I know artificial limits pre-set are always too confining. The Greek's weakness was they pretended towards democracy but their ideals were stunted in that they kept slaves. Similarly to the Romans they did not denigrate other races in their literature, except in one instance where I read it was said Slavs were stupid. I think in fact the Slav thought it better to appear to be stupid. It is amazing how people don't catch on to that stuff. Perhaps the thinking was they could not trust them to be free in their society, given that they were a tiny country surrounded by more numerous enemies. In those days, everybody on your borders was your enemy almost without exception it would appear. Occasionally there were allies, but that only lasted as long as another more powerful enemy did not threaten to invade them. Slaves mined silver from Laurium to bolster the Athenian government. It makes me wonder about western civilization since we have come into the light of day in dealing with what we all to recently considered our inferiors in the family of man. When I look at the history our groups in Europe and North America, I realize that we are just a rabble of self-justifying despoilers, thieves and tyrants. Corrupt as any race or government has ever been, building a giant military fortress to keep out the masses of humanity around our drying moats. Is it any wonder there are more lawyers than scientists? Is it any wonder there are more desperately poor in the USA than there are people living in any European country? But I agree with Hitler's Historian, Spengler. We are fundamentally doomed to crumble eventually to more vigorous societies, who have not fallen to our levels of sloth and complacency. We are decaying, morally, spiritually, ethically, physically and mentally. We are no longer challenged. Fat, Effete Slaves in our own way to an all nurturing mother government, we have become oblivious to the dangers of complacency. No penury, no adversity, no dreams drive us on. We expect wealth for little work, and in the abysmal ignorance and hubris bred by excessive expectations of our heritage, can no longer compete with hungrier societies. We are Rome and Rome will fall. EC<:-}