To: Elroy who wrote (364497 ) 12/27/2007 7:57:27 PM From: tejek Respond to of 1575614 When one group acquires more wealth and resources of that pie at the expense of other groups, the other groups naturally suffer. Not necessarily true. If we've got 12 slices of pizza and usually you take 5 and I take 7, then later it changes to you take 4 and I take 8, you aren't suffering at all if 4 is plenty. Probably 3 is plenty! The ratio you are suggesting is far from applicable.......its more like the richest take 10 pieces and the rest get two pieces to divvy up. Some barely have enough; others don't have enough. So when the rich take even more of the pie everyone below them is shortchanged and suffers to varying degrees. I would say the poorest classes in this country are always short and have to cut out a number of basics like health insurance to survive. The middle class mostly has enough but runs short periodically and must make do with a lesser quality. The upper middle class of which you are a part of....has extras for varying reasons.....you for an example don't have kids to raise so you and your wife have more disposable income. Then its the upper class who are rolling in the dough and keeping stores like Tiffany's and Neiman's in the money. In the last few years, its the stores like Neiman, Tiffany's, Nordstrom's et al that have done the best and lesser stores like Target and Walmart have struggled. I think it reflects where the classes are income wise these days.In recent years, the rate of accumulation by the richest has accelerated considerably, meaning more wealth than normal has accrued to the elite and been taken from the lower classes....hurting them significantly in the process. Again not true. Sometimes the "lower class" are the ones who enjoy the windfall accumulation (win the lottery!). Come one.....how often does someone win the lottery? The problem with your thinking is you then put them in the "elite" category that is now allegedly hurting the lower class. I don't think Warren Buffet came from any elite group, and Bill Gates might have been comfortably middle class in his youth, so they illustrate the opportunity to move up into the elite class in the USA, but you are counting all of their wealth accumulation as if they began as elites and just took from the poor. They didn't. That whole Horatio Alger stuff is mostly garbage. Sure some people move up from the lower classes to the upper classes but its even more rare than winning the lottery.Class Mobility: Is the American Dream a Myth? by Ed Gordon Listen Now add to playlist News & Notes, May 23, 2005 · A New York Times poll found 80 percent of Americans still believe it's possible to pull yourself up by the proverbial bootstraps. But a recent mobility study suggests the American Dream may be more style than substance. According to the study, the lower classes of Canada, Britain, Germany and France have an easier time moving their way up the social ladder than their American counterparts. News & Notes conducts a poll of its own. For generations of African Americans, race has played a key role in determining class. But does it still? To help answer that question and take a closer look at class mobility in America's communities of color, host Ed Gordon is joined by Elizabeth Cole, a psychologist and associate professor in the Women's Studies Program and the Center for Afro-American and African Studies at the University of Michigan, and Jennifer Hamer, associate professor of sociology in the African American Studies and Research Program at the University of Illinois. npr.org Well the more wealth in the hands of fewer people means we become less of a democracy. Not unless the people with the newfound increases in personal wealth use it to suppress democracy. Bill Gates using his wealth to promote the health of Africans certainly doesn't harm global democracy, does it? Sure but not everyone is as democratic as Gates. Very few of America's wealthy make a geniune effort to improve the country. For every Gates, there are probably thousands working to make more money for themselves and do nothing for the country other than to manipulate the gov't so that their money is protected.Fewer people control what's happening in the country. With the rise of the internet and instant communication and increased easily accessible media coverage of everything (like CSPAN) you are going to have a hard time arguing fewer people control what's happening in the USA than did say 50-100 years ago. The rich getting richer isn't happening in a vaccuum. True. The internet has a been a boon but we have yet to see if it will have a real impact. Even with the internet, it still costs millions to be president in this country.....or even a senator. However, with the advent of the internet, middle class guys like Obama can raise millions by working off the Net.It becomes rarer and rarer for one of the non wealthy to get elected to national office. It still happens......see Bill Clinton. 50% of the previous two Presidents were non-wealthy, how does that constitute rarer and rarer? 2/3rds of the current leading Dem candidates are not "wealthy". The facts are not with you, son.... Of the three leading Dems, two are millionaires. Of the four leading GOPers, two are millionaires, one close and the last, Huckabee, is middle class. Let's see who gets the nominations. The GOP powers are working feverishly to keep Huckabee out. However, most people running for national offices......particularly the Senate and the presidency are millionaires. Unfortunately, in a capitalistic society, wealth equals smarts and competence.....which isn't necessarily true at all. Have you any proof that the income level of politicians relative to the rest of the USA has changed over the past 100 years? Even if you do, that doesn't necessarily mean there is something bad about the rich getting richer. This is a separate argument......it shouldn't take millions to get someone elected to office. It gives outside interests/lobbyists too much say in the gov't. ------------------------And what do you think about the well educated getting a larger and larger slice of the economic pie than the less well educated? Is that also a problem, since the well educated are getting wealthy "at the expense of the ignorant"? While intellectually we're all born equal in this country, in reality, we do not have equal abilities or are not all born into good circumstances. For some of the latter, they are able to fill the gap by getting educated. And education certainly helps one improve his or her life. But what about the people where education does not work for them.....they can't manage it for various reasons or they are mentally challenged? Should they be left to live in squalor and/or die early because they don't have access to good health benefits? I don't think so but they do......the American lifespan is about the same as the Mexican lifespan and significantly below the Europeans and Japanese. Do you think that's acceptable? I don't.