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Politics : The Environmentalist Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LindyBill who wrote (19913)	1/30/2008 3:01:03 PM
From: Thomas A Watson	Respond to of 36917

Did a quick look at the site climatedebatedaily.com The pro CO2 fairytale side seems nothing but articles of "OH My God" we must do bla bla to save the planet. The side is even called, Calls to action. The other side is called, Dissenting voices. Looked liked articles on what is bogus in the science and how the presentation of the Calls to action are framed in domatic terms.

To: LindyBill who wrote (19913)	1/31/2008 12:19:21 PM
From: Nikole Wollerstein	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 36917

Snow disaster in China is also part of Global Warming

To: LindyBill who wrote (19913)	2/1/2008 3:42:32 PM
From: Thomas A Watson	Respond to of 36917

I decided to check climatedebatedaily.com again. The CO2 hoax side has more articles on what evil humans need to give up. On the side of truth justice and the American way... CO2 absorbs radiation from only a small part of the spectrum, and most of what it can absorb is being absorbed already. More CO2 will make little difference...continue » A 23 page pdf junkscience.com [ 306 ] > head -80 Global_Warming_Not_From_CO2_20080124.txt Carbon Heat Trapping: Merely A Bit Player in Global Warming1 Richard J. Petschauer, Senior Member IEEE Abstract New calculations show that doubling of carbon dioxide (CO2) will increase average global temperature by only about 1F (degrees Fahrenheit) or 0.55C (degrees Centigrade), much less that the range of 2C to 4.5C estimated by the United Nations International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). These new calculations are based on NASA supported spectral calculations available on the Internet relating to greenhouse gases. The temperature increases are estimated to be somewhat more in winter in the colder climates because of reduced competing atmosphere water vapor, but smaller increases at other times and places. These calculations also estimate that a 10 percent increase of water vapor in the atmosphere, a stronger greenhouse gas than CO2, or a reduction in the average cloud cover of only about 2 percent, will increase global temperature about as much as doubling CO2 would. Each additional doubling of CO2 will cause further temperature increases of about the same as that caused by the first doubling. Greenhouse gases, except water vapor, only trap heat at certain narrow wavelengths of infrared radiation related to their molecular structures. Data shows that present concentrations of CO2, a strong absorber, are already well above the saturation value at its principal wavelength, so increases in it have a relative small affect. These new calculations are based on atmospheric models of the energy absorption bandwidths of greenhouse gases coupled with Max Planck?s equations relating to infrared wavelength distributions. A new simple technique is also proposed in the appendix to measure actual trapped heat being radiated back from the atmosphere to the Earth. This can be used to evaluate validate various estimating models. It also indicates that the role of clouds and their height above the Earth may have a larger role than previously thought. Since clouds operate as both powerful heat-trapping agents, overriding others, and a reflector of the sun?s energy, they may be the key factor in the regulation of the average global temperature. At the present time, they are one of the least measured parameters in the computer models predicting future climate changes. Weather and climate forecasting considering all factors is very complex, and this paper does not cover that subject. However it is felt that the simple role of long-term heat rises due to only CO2 changes is a much simpler process and better estimated by basic models as used here. Certain shortcomings in the IPCC data and estimates, as reported by others, are also summarized. Based on this new information, recommendations are made regarding future U.S. energy policy. While it does appear that the recent years show a warming trend, the role of CO2 in this is very small, and perhaps beneficial in moderating winter temperatures in colder climates. Understanding Heat ?Trapping? It is well known that certain gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2), water vapor, methane, and others in the atmosphere absorb radiant infrared heat that is leaving the Earth?s surface, warm the air, and re-radiate heat in all directions, including back to Earth. Infrared energy is an electromagnetic wave like visible light and radio waves, but of different frequencies or wavelengths. (This heat transfer process is incorrectly called ?trapping?, but at times we will use that term here because it is referred to so often in the media). However, it is not generally known that this heat absorption occurs only at certain wavelengths. These are the ones that have frequencies that resonate at certain values that relate to those of a particular molecule?s structure. It is similar to a radio receiver picking up only signals that correspond to the frequency to which its tuner is adjusted. Some of these different gases have several resonant wavelengths and some of these overlap among them. This is the case for water vapor and CO2. Since there are many more water vapor molecules in the air than CO2, the ones for CO2 that do not overlap, or only partially overlap water vapor, are of interest. Note: The term ?greenhouse gas? is actually a misnomer. In real greenhouses the ceiling blocks the rising warm air from escaping. With little temperature differences, radiant heat transfer is very low. So phrases such as ?heat trapping greenhouse gases? (two flawed concepts in only four words) are causing great concern and misleading the uninformed public. Hopefully, this paper will help to correct this situation. Quantifying Carbon Dioxide Heat Trapping Figure 12 shows the absorbing wavelengths for various greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and the percent of infrared heat each absorbs (the shaded regions represent absorption, the white depicts transmission). Wavelengths from about 5 to 70 microns cover close to 98 percent of the infrared energy at a typical Earth temperature at 50F, so this is the region of interest. The total heat radiated depends strongly on the temperature; it roughly doubles from 0F to 100F. However over this range, the wavelength where the peak energy occurs only moves about plus, minus 10 percent from that at 50F. Carbon dioxide has one major resonant value in this range at 15 micrometers, shown in the circled area. Note that this area reaches the 100 percent line and is flat for several micrometers with a steep rise and fall on the sides. This indicates that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is highly saturated regarding absorption at this wavelength. The case is quite different for water vapor. It has some wide flat regions and some others with broad transitions from low to high absorption. This is because water vapor has many different absorbing wavelengths of varying strengths, so some are saturated and some are not. The weak ones do some absorption helped by the fact that there are about 20 times more water vapor molecules than those of CO2 in the air at typical temperatures. Carbon dioxide on the other hand has very strong absorption, but at only over relatively narrow wavelength bands. Also note that there is considerable overlap of the CO2 and water vapor absorption regions. This means that if