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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (257491)	2/24/2008 6:45:48 PM
From: Nicholas Thompson	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

most of your arguments are squishy or backwards.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (257491)	2/24/2008 9:12:32 PM
From: geode00	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The first 7 years of Bush: - Ignored warnings about a terrorist attack on US soil. - Took more vacation time than any other modern President. - Put activist judges on the SC. - Went to a party instead of attending to Katrina. - Started a war for personal profit. - Raised gasoline prices to record highs. - Tried to put Harriet Miers on the SC. - Made Condie Rice, the worst NSA in history, the worst Secretary of State in history. - Ignored Colin Powell and General Shinseki. - Increased the National Debt by over 60%. - Turned Clinton's surplus into deficit. - Gave us 2 recessions. - Gave us the worst mortgage mess in US history. - Destroyed the image of the USA in the world. - Spit on the US Constitution time and again. - Declared himself above the law and above Congress time and again. - Etc. Republicans and right wingers have nothing to say about competence.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (257491)	2/24/2008 9:17:53 PM
From: geode00	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Nadine you are a piece of work. You are such a liar and you are actually getting worse in flinging your muck all around the place. Clinton went after OBL until the Republicans stopped him by whining about blue dresses. Bush OTOH ignored AQ and OBL choosing instead to go on yet another vacation. You, Nadine, are such a liar. There are 4,000 dead Americans who are dead proof that there is no need for another 911 because it has happened over there. How dare you ignore them you utter piece of work. How dare you use them like some kind of PR opportunity. You are such a piece of work.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (257491)	2/25/2008 10:23:43 AM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Excerpts of Obama Remarks At Cleveland Jewish Community Meeting Debunks some of the rumors On support in Jewish community: “I have been honored to have the support of so many friends from the Jewish community dating back to my first days in public life in Chicago. One of the people who helped my political career get off the ground was the late great Irving Harris, some of you may know, who was one of the most influential business people and philanthropists in Chicago and since that time I have been honored to have support in the Jewish community of my campaign. You like so many other Americans know that this is a defining moment in our history, that we need to see fundamental change in Washington. We need to change how Washington works because politics shouldn’t just be about scoring political points, it should also be about solving problems. We need to change our priorities to make healthcare more affordable. To have an energy policy that not only creates jobs and secures our planet but also stops sending billions of dollars to dictators and effectively leads us to fund both sides of the war on terrorism. We need a change in our foreign policy to allows to end the war in Iraq responsibly and lead the world against the common threats of the 21st century, terrorism and nuclear proliferation, genocide, poverty and hopelessness in the world. These changes are founded in a view of the world that I believe is deeply embedded in the Jewish tradition.” On Chicago pastor controversy: “It is true that my Pastor, Jeremiah Wright, who will be retiring this month, is somebody who on occasion can say controversial things. Most of them by the way are controversial directed at the African American Community and calling on them start reading books and turn off the TV set and engage in self help. And he is very active in prison ministries and so forth. Its is also true that he comes out of the 60s he is an older man. That is where he cut his teeth. That he has historically been interested in the African roots of the African American experience. He was very active in the South Africa divestment movement and you will recall that there was a tension that arose between the African American and the Jewish communities During that period when we were dealing with apartheid in South Africa, because Israel and South Africa had a relationship at that time. And that cause – that was a source of tension. So there have been a couple of occasions where he made comments with relation, rooted in that. Not necessariary ones that I share. But that is the context within which he has made those comments. He does not have a close relationship with Louis Farrakhan. Louis Farrakhan is a resident of Chicago and as a consequence he has been active in a range of community activities, particularly around ex-offenders and dealing with them. I have been a consistent, before I go any further, a consistent denunciator of Louis Farrakhan, nobody challenges that. And what is true is that, recently this is probably, I guess last year. An award was given to Farrakhan for his work on behave of ex-offenders completely unrelated to his controversial statements. And I believe that was a mistake and showed a lack of sensitivity to Jewish community and I said so. But I have never heard an anti-Semitic made inside of our church. I have never heard anything that would suggest anti-Semitism on part of the Pastor. He is like an old uncle who sometimes will say things that I don’t agree with. And I suspect there are some of the people in this room who have heard relatives say some things that they don’t agree with. Including, on occasion directed at African Americans that maybe a possibility that’s just – I am not suggesting that’s definitive. So the point I make is this that I understand the concerns and the sensitivities and one of my goals constantly in my public career has been to try to bridge what was a historically powerful bond between the African American and Jewish communities that has been frayed in recent years. For a whole variety of reasons. I think that I have served as an effective bridge and that’s the reason I have overwhelming support among the Jewish community that knows me best, which is the Jewish community in Chicago. And I think that anybody who has friends among the Jewish community in Chicago should check out those credentials. But I do appreciate the opportunity to clarify those concerns. And as I said that last point I would make is that you know my Pastor is going to be retiring over the next month. So my general view, and the reason that I raise this, this is always a sensitive point, what you don’t want to do is distance yourself or kick somebody away, because you are now running for President and you are worried about perceptions, particularly when someone is basically winding down their life and their career.” More on Muslim e-mails: “Well, let’s just be very specific about what these emails have been. And they have just been virulent and started very early. And I have to say are not. I mean they are clearly political in the sense that they go in waves. And seem to track the next…the next primary or caucus. Suddenly they magically appear in great volume in whatever state it is we are campaigning. And the emails suggest that A. that I am Muslim, B. that I went to a madrassa C. that I used a Koran to swear myself into the Senate D. That I don’t pledge allegiance to the flag. There are all sorts of variations, but you get the general gist. And our general view has been, that the internet is very difficult, because it is very low cost, it can just be churned out and you can’t trace it back to where it’s coming from. What we have tried to do is just make sure that we are flooding the internet with the accurate information and pushing back as much as possible. I don’t think that we are in an era anymore where you can just ignore these things and not dignify them. There was a time when they would be amplified as consequence of you calling attention to it. I don’t think that’s the case any more because of our media age. You know we saw what happened with the swiftboat situation back in 2004. All you have to do is run the ad once and then it gets repeated. And so what we’ve done is try to lift it up and actively debunk it and encourage stories about it. If anyone is still puzzled about the facts, in fact I have never been a Muslim. We had to send CNN to look at the school that I attended in Indonesia where kids were wearing short pants and listening to ipods to indicate that this was not a madrassa but was a secular school in Indonesia. Where I attended for two year prior to coming back to Hawaii. If you look at Nicholas Kristof’s article today it gives you an indication of where I got my name. My grandfather who was Kenyan converted to Christianity then converted to Islam, my father never practiced he was basically agnostic and so other than my name and the fact that I lived in a populous Muslim country for 4 years when I was a child I have very little connection to the Islamic religion. But these are the kind of things that you deal with in politics.” On U.S.-Israel relations: “Well here’s my starting orientation is A – Israel’s security is sacrosanct, is non negotiable. That’s point number one. Point number two is that the status quo I believe is unsustainable over time. So we’re going to have to make a shift from the current deadlock that we’re in. Number three that Israel has to remain a Jewish state and what I believe that means is that any negotiated peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians is going to have to involve the Palestinians relinquishing the right of return as it has been understood in the past. And that doesn’t mean that there may not be conversations about compensation issues. It also means the Israelis will have to figure out how do we work with a legitimate Palestinian government to create a Palestinian state that is sustainable. It’s going to have to be contiguous, its going to have to work its going to have to function in some way. That’s in Israel’s interest by the way. If you have a balkanized unsustainable state, it will break down and we will be back in the same boat. So those are the starting points of my orientation. My goal then would be to solicit as many practical opinions as possible in terms of how we’re going to move forward on a improvement of relations and a sustainable peace.” thepage.time.com