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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (51111)	3/1/2008 9:05:36 AM
From: epicure	Respond to of 543776

" I also wonder why Obama CHOSE TO BE BLACK, rather than WHITE" Perhaps you forgot the post which started this, and what I posted? So I guess we agree he can't be white. That was my only point. I was amazed anyone would think he had a choice about that. Seems to me there are at least 3 things involved here: 1. The color of Obama's skin- which is black, or brown- not by any stretch is he going to be able to "choose" to have white skin 2. The community he chooses to inhabit. He attends a black church- presumably with mostly black or mixed race people. He has a black or mixed race wife. So he lives at least partly in the black community, but that's not really about him choosing to "be" black. 3. Third we can look at behavior. People in this country (imo) incorrectly use the word "black" for a certain type of behavior. It isn't black- it's ghetto. When some people say "He's acting black"- they mean someone is talking ghetto. That isn't black- it's merely one subculture of the black community. Mr. Obama has clearly chosen NOT to be ghetto. He does have some of the speech patterns of the black church in his speeches- a la MLK. That's not really "black" any more either, since other groups have stolen some of that rhetorical technique. Anyway, in terms of behavior I think you'd be hard pressed to say Obama had chosen "black" even assuming there was a "black" kind of behavior- which I don't think there is.

To: Lane3 who wrote (51111)	3/1/2008 2:47:28 PM
From: Cogito	Respond to of 543776

>>I think we're talking about two different things. Of course he would be seen as black. But how we are seen is different from how we identify ourselves and how we choose to present ourselves. For example, people become Jewish by having a Jewish mother. But they choose with whom they culturally associate and they choose whether to practice the religion and the variation of that religion. An excellent athlete chooses whether to identify with jocks. A beautiful woman chooses whether to be a beautiful woman or a woman who happens to be beautiful. Look at the fuss in the deaf community about choosing between the community and the broader world. Black people will accept mixed-race people as black, but white people will not accept them as white. This is not a binary choice. Or course they can't choose to be white. But they can choose to be multi-racial. They can also choose to be brown. And those who have an African parent can choose to be part African rather than part "black."<< Karen - I guess maybe we are talking about two different things. I was responding to the idea that Obama "chose to be black". There even seems to be an implication coming from somewhere that he did so for political advantage; a ludicrous notion. I'm not sure if you're saying that Obama could have just decided to hang around with white people more, or what. You say he could have chosen to be multi-racial. Well, he does identify himself as African-American, in much the same way as I identify myself as Scottish and Swedish. My thesis is simply that people are likely to hang around with and identify with the people who accept them most readily, and in that respect, I think Obama just chose to accept things as they were. - Allen