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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (51749)	3/5/2008 9:30:14 AM
From: wonk	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 540924

...Lookit, I worked long and hard to become a lawyer. My husband worked long and hard to become an engineer. And we both work long and hard hours to have nice things and take care of our family. We made a lot of sacrifices to afford to live in Fairfax. .... I've been reading your stuff for 10 years. I know where you are coming from. I'd also wager you dollars to donuts (oops showing my age, that analogy hardly works anymore) that I've worked harder and longer than you. The difference between us is that I recognize how thin the thread is, on which my prosperity hangs. You do not. Now I must really go, and earn my keep. ww

To: Ilaine who wrote (51749)	3/5/2008 10:29:58 AM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 540924

Cobe, I am so glad someone is voicing these opinions out loud and I hope that instead of getting angry or attempting to make those of us with those reactions feel somehow "cruel" and selfish, people will address them and discuss them as legitimate rational doubts. They are very common emotions and reactions, and they go hand-in-hand with the American "personality" of working hard and moving ahead and being independent. In a way, it's rather like the illegal problem. Control the borders before you take on the enormous problem within the country. I am probably not very coherent in this- I just wanted to get it out there that your and Lane3's comments are very needed here to help talk through an issue that divides our nation, and urge both sides to try to avoid getting too emotional or personally critical of the other side. This is a real opportunity for the sides to listen to each other.

To: Ilaine who wrote (51749)	3/5/2008 3:17:08 PM
From: DanD	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 540924

Let me get this straight, you are a lawyer and your husband is an engineer in Fairfax; which puts your current or near term earnings potential somewhere in the $200,000 - $500,000 annual earnings range? I feel fairly confident in these numbers, since, I lived and worked in the DC area as an engineer for over 15 years. If you aren't making that much, now or don't expect to in the near future, then you are giving you're labor away; either by choice or incompetence. This of course isn't counting your investment income; which, if you don't have now, you will soon -- if you choose -- because with what you make, you have this thing called discretionary spending. Let's not count the value of those "nice things" benefits, the working poor can only dream of like matching 401k's and Health Care, complete with, dental and vision plans. Are you claiming there is a tax policy on the table of either party that would gasp force you to shop at Wall Mart? BTW, Wall Mart has "nice things" too. They just sell them for less. Poor people work hard too. Many have two and three jobs and over 50 million can't afford this "nice thing" called health care, because often that would mean giving up other "nice things" called food, shelter and clothing (much of which they buy at Wall Mart, if they can afford that). The right wing has made this self indulgent argument for 30 years. I am not saying it doesn't have some merit, we are a capitalist society and I believe in capitalism and letting people enjoy the fruits of their labors. I too worked myself through college and supported myself (sans spouse) and after graduation subsidized others through my tax dollars to go to school and do the same. I also subsidized the education of other people's children (I have none of my own) through local property taxes via the public education system. I am willing to bet you went to a public institution (if not, even private schools are subsidized by tax payer money in some way) of some sort or took grants or scholarships or government subsidized loans (all backed by others tax dollars). I have never asked for any of those tax dollars back, because I believe in education as an economic tide that helps all boats rise. Not even you're cries of, "I'm entitled to think I did all this in a vacuum through hard work and sacrifice," makes me want to. Universal health care and balanced budgets and other such things might be subsidies that work similarly to education subsidies -- I am not at all certain -- but if Europe is any indicator (check out the value of the Euro vs. Dollar). Then I am more than willing to fund it. If not and UHC only means more people are treated like human beings, and it means a few more tax dollars out of my pocket then I am happy to do so, and more than willing to keep on working. Even if it means I have to buy a few things at Wall Mart. Dan D.