To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (641 ) 3/17/2008 6:01:14 PM From: one_less Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 777 "...ever exist? If so, when and where?" Of course it ever and always existed for eternity, here and everywhere. Not as a natural location yet not unnatural either. You are created in a condition of enmity for one unto another and with the free will to choose a higher nature. A nature you are called by, a nature you are led to, a higher nature available to those with ears to hear and eyes to see, a nature that is more worthwhile than the scratching and clawing nature of enmity, a perfect nature available only to the individual who seeks it and is afforded to those who reject the lower form. A life worth living is purposeful and requires a belief that a good and purposeful life is just and achievable, even if that justice is sometimes beyond our limited view of circumstance. It is reasonable to conclude that moral goodness is self evident. Self evidence is enough evidence to conclude that it is simply good in and of itself to be kind, charitable, compassionate, benevolent etc. This is also naturally the condition of humanness; It feels right and good to behave this way, so you can figure out for yourself that it is good and a choice available to you, as all people can. But that is not enough, is it. We suffer when we act as though we are entitled to whatever seems good at the moment or whatever feels good. Many things seem good in and of themselves, eventually turning out to be seductive traps that are harmful over the long term, when done in excess, or when lacking wise counsel. They seem to go beyond the science of observation, at least in the physical sense. Illusion and delusion may lie beyond the observable just as truth and wisdom may.