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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Cogito who wrote (54664)	3/20/2008 2:04:19 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542201

You can decide that if I don't see this situation the way you do then I must be biased. I'll address your post more later. I'm in the middle of some raspberry sorbet right now. I'm not talking about bias as in bigoted. I'm talking about bias as in wishful thinking, in large part. I've seen posts here asserting that this won't have a long-term effect on Obama and posts elsewhere just as confidently asserting that he's toast. Both reflect bias. There's no basis for asserting either at this point.

To: Cogito who wrote (54664)	3/20/2008 3:01:53 PM
From: Thomas A Watson	Respond to of 542201

to me there is a huge magnitude of difference in association between being one's pastor and mentor for 20 years and what you relate as seeking a blessing or support. I would also suspect there is a magnitude of difference in the messages of Wright and either Falwell or Robertson and the love vs hate ratio and no discernment of skin color in the messages of Falwell or Robertson . As a practical matter I do believe when or if Falwell or Robertson gave any hint of the Wright messages they would be soundly rebuked and may have been and rightly apologized. In any case the magnitude of difference in the level of association is mega big. A picture is worth a thousand words. What does the analysis of the above relative considerations suggest as bias or as wisdom or ignorance? e6.ath.cx I do wonder how obama is the great healer of racial divide when as a 20 year member he seemed to have no ability to impact his personally chosen parish. Does one need to learn to walk before they run or just talk about it?

To: Cogito who wrote (54664)	3/20/2008 3:38:41 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542201

In any case, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and John Hagee are closer to being equivalent to Wright in my mind, as Wonk suggested. Fine. Here's my statement that started this colloquy: "Again, that doesn't make Wright's outrageous pronouncements any less outrageous or damaging." So, how does your point about Robertson, etc., make Wright's outrageous pronouncements any less outrageous or damaging? It doesn't. It makes you more sensitive to the unfairness of piling on Obama disproportionately over this, sure, but the statements are still the statements. You want to stick up for your guy. That's understandable. If you want to consciously invoke a bunch of logic fallacies to argue for your guy, that's one thing. Believing them is quite another. Getting back to Wright, I'd like to know what you think is so terrible about anything he has said? Message 24425253 I don't think we can reasonably argue that points one and two are false, and I don't see anything wrong with point three. I can pick at point two a bit. Still a lot of discrimination? I don't claim to know just how much there is. Probably more than some think and less than others think. What I do know is that it's miniscule compared to what it used to be. Back when Wright made his bones, it was horrid. Now, not so much. But he's still railing the same old rail. I can find fault with that. I don't think that serves his people well. Three, black people, therefore, need to stick together, and need to rely on themselves to get ahead. That's a topic for another day.