SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Welcome to Slider's Dugout -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: jim_p who wrote (8905)3/31/2008 3:34:04 PM
From: Eva  Respond to of 50420
 
Whats even worse is that the rest of the world has to pay too.

why is no one standing up and doing something?

Slider to the rescue, on the barricades, we will follow you



To: jim_p who wrote (8905)3/31/2008 4:01:20 PM
From: SliderOnTheBlack  Read Replies (5) | Respond to of 50420
 
Hey jim, get a load of this - from the SEC...

If there is anyone left on this board who has any
doubt that our government is not just complicit, but is
in fact the managing partner in the greatest transfer of
wealth in history, this will remove those last lingering
doubts.

So much for SFAS 157...

Check out this letter on the SEC web site, that they sent
out to public companies regarding SFAS 157.

sec.gov

In a nutshell, they are telling the banks how to cook
the books.

Read what NY Times Financial Columist Floyd Norris
had to say about it...

===============================================================

norris.blogs.nytimes.com

March 28, 2008, 6:21 pm

"If Market Prices Are Too Low, Ignore Them."

The Securities and Exchange Commission is out today with a letter to companies that own a lot of financial instruments whose current market value must be reported to shareholders. For more than a few companies, disclosing market values is neither easy nor convenient.

The issue is the application of SFAS 157, which governs the way companies compute fair value of assets, assuming they have to do so anyway. (Banks and brokers have to do that a lot, but I won’t go into the details of when they can avoid it.) The rule took effect on Jan. 1, although some companies adopted it last year.

The rule sets out three categories of assets, with different ways to value them. Category 1 includes assets with easily observable market values. I.B.M. stock closed today at $114.57, and it is not easy to justify a different value if your quarter ended today. Category 2 is a little fuzzier, where there are observable markets that provide a good guide to prices of your asset, even though there is no direct market. And then there is Category 3, which is essentially mark to model.

In companies that adopted Statement 157 early, we have seen a lot of assets end up in Category 3. That may be proper, since there are plenty of complex financial instruments for which there is not much of a market these days. But it also provides companies with a way to fudge figures.

The S.E.C. letter asks companies for some disclosures on how they came up with those values, and on why a lot of assets may have moved into Category 3. Such disclosures can only help investors.

But one part of the letter stood out to me, providing an excuse for companies to ignore a market value if they don’t like it (italics added):

“Under SFAS 157, it is appropriate for you to consider actual market prices, or observable inputs, even when the market is less liquid than historical market volumes, unless those prices are the result of a forced liquidation or distress sale. Only when actual market prices, or relevant observable inputs, are not available is it appropriate for you to use unobservable inputs which reflect your assumptions of what market participants would use in pricing the asset or liability.”

That sounds to me like an invitation to fudge. Some people on Wall Street think that nearly every sale today is a forced sale. There are entire categories of collateralized debt obligations where most, if not all, of the trades, occur because a holder has received, or expects, a margin call.

What the S.E.C. should require is a disclosure when a company concludes that a market price should be ignored because it came from a “forced liquidation or distress sale.” Then there should be a disclosure of how much lower that distress price was from the value the company is using in its own valuation.

Alternatively, there could be a simple rule, at least for banks. If you will ignore this price as irrelevant when you decide whether to send out margin calls to those to whom you have lent money, then you can ignore that market price when you make your own reports. But if you won’t lend based on a valuation that ignores actual market prices, then you should not use that valuation for your own accounts.

===============================================================

Here's what Barry Ritholz of the BigPicture blog had to say...

bigpicture.typepad.com

SFAS 157: Market Prices Too Low? Just Ignore Them!
Monday, March 31, 2008 | 06:47 AM
in Credit | Derivatives | Markets | Taxes and Policy
Here's a honey of an idea that almost slipped by unnoticed last week. Thankfully, the NYT's sharp eyed business columnist, Floyd Norris, caught it.

An SEC opinion letter advising companies how to deal with their Level 3 assets made a rather curious suggestion. They advised that if the prices of mark-to-model crappy paper are underwater, well then, declare it the result of forced liquidation -- and then you can simply ignore them.

It truly boggles the mind.

Would someone please explain to me how providing an official mechanism for allowing companies to ignore market values of the bad investments they made help investors? Instead of working towards transparency, the SEC is providing a mechanism to allow banks to hide losses from their shareholders. This is nothing short of an invitation to commit fraud.

Here's the offending passage:

“Under SFAS 157, it is appropriate for you to consider actual market prices, or observable inputs, even when the market is less liquid than historical market volumes, unless those prices are the result of a forced liquidation or distress sale. Only when actual market prices, or relevant observable inputs, are not available is it appropriate for you to use unobservable inputs which reflect your assumptions of what market participants would use in pricing the asset or liability.” (emphasis added)

Norris suggests this is an invitation for banks having two sets of books. One for Bank disclosures for shareholders: Ignore these paper losses, the prices are only due to a forced liquidation -- and another for Margin calls: Hey! You are underwater by XX% in this; send in more money! Apparently, the SEC believes prices are irrelevant, except when it comes to margin calls.

Stop and think about this for a moment: Every margin call is essentially a forced sale. Consider the alphabet soup of highly leveraged derivatives out there, where many of the most recent trades have occurred because some hedgie has blown up. What might the unintended consequences of this rule actually be?

Today is the last day of the quarter. There is often window dressing to the upside the last few days before a Q's end to make the fund's performance look better. Imagine if there was an incentive to make a huge category of derivatives' last trade appear to be the result of a margin call? We would have this enormous window dressing down -- so as to not have to come up with a legitimate value for tier 3 junk.

This is a directive to banks to make the situation much, much worse. They can clean up their own books by forcing liquidations elsewhere. Un-fricking-believable.

Holy shnikes, have any of these people at the SEC every worked on a trading desk?

===============================================================

You know, the least they could do today, would be to pardon
Jeff Skilling, Bernie Ebbers and Dennis Kozlowski... because
as it turns out, they weren't crooked, just early.

Forget the million man march, we need a 10 million
taxpayers march on Washington.

S.O.T.B.



To: jim_p who wrote (8905)3/31/2008 4:34:38 PM
From: SliderOnTheBlack  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 50420
 
re:["We can spend over a trillion dollars to try to bring freedom to a region of the world that been at war for the last 2,000 years and has no value for human life, but we can’t afford to take care of our senior citizens and need to cheat them out of their social security by creating false CPI numbers to continue the characids."]

Sad, and true.

What are we going to end up spending in Iraq?

From the non partisan CBO (congressional budgeting office:

======================================================================
"The U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost taxpayers a total of $2.4 trillion dollars by 2017 when counting the huge interest costs because combat is being financed with borrowed money. The CBO estimated that of the $2.4 trillion long-term price tag for the war, about $1.9 trillion of that would be spent on Iraq."

As of March 2008, over $500 Billion has already been spent
in Iraq.

From Wikipedia:

"As the total passed 450 Billion dollars, the cost for the Iraq war reached approximately $1500.usd per person in the United States.[8] If the Iraq war were to wind up costing 1.9 trillion dollars, the cost would be over 4.2 times higher ($6,300 per United States citizen.) This would put the expense at $25,000 for an average family of four ( or $32,000 per family if Afghanistan is included.)

As a comparison, with this money he estimates that one could have built 8 million houses, paid 15 million teachers, paid for the child care of 530 million kids, paid for the scholarship of 43 million students, offered social safety net during 50 years to Americans."

======================================================================

Instead, we have enriched the Arab Oil States, terrorist
states included, and we have rebuilt, enriched, emboldened
and empowered a new Russia.

How much alternative energy infrastructure could $2.4
Trillion have financed?

We could have funded and accelerated the development
of the Canadian oil sands, and had about $2 Trillion left
over for alternative energy.

Eisenhower tried to warn us then...just as Ron Paul is
warning us now.

""In the councils of government, we must guard against
the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or
unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential
for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

"We must never let the weight of this combination endanger
our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing
for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can
compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military
machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so
that security and liberty may prosper together."


youtube.com
(video of his farewell address and warning
about the military-industrial-defense complex)

America didn't listen then...

Tick tock,

S.O.T.B.



To: jim_p who wrote (8905)3/31/2008 4:37:39 PM
From: bullbud  Respond to of 50420
 
jim-

Do you visit the Coffee Shop?