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Politics : GOPwinger Lies/Distortions/Omissions/Perversions of Truth -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (120588)	4/14/2008 9:19:34 PM
From: TideGlider	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 173976

You are a friggin idiot sheppard. You go way too far. War is never pretty. What do you do for America or have ever done? You talk a lot about "our" country, but all you ever do is pick it apart. You are a loser who probably lost his wife and girlfriends to cops and servicemen. I say that because nobody could be so obviously suffering than you. Whining on nearly every post. I think you have no investment in this country, so why the BS? You give the strong impression that there is something very deep and painful that you don't mention. Perhaps you anger is misplaced?

To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (120588)	4/15/2008 9:40:07 AM
From: Bill	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 173976

Joey, outside of the aforementioned three terrorists, there aren't even any allegations from GITMO or other prisoners of waterboarding. So how can you have the arrogance to say we waterboard when nobody is even accusing us of such? The anti-US crap you traitors spout is really nauseating.

To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (120588)	4/15/2008 2:00:26 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 173976

"How the eff do you know how many we tortured..." We have no proof that anyone has been tortured, we don't even have a resolution on whether or not water boarding is torture. Torture is not simply a mechanism, it requires a circumstance and a context to be understood properly. There may be good reasons to criticize or abandon all kinds of practices used by authorities to gain cooperation, without forcing each of those practices into a pigeon hole called torture. When you manipulate the rules of decent conduct and fair play, you lose the confidence of society. Encouraging your enemies or criminals to sell out information in exchange for freedom is a form of blackmail. Exploiting fear, plea bargains, interrogation tactics designed to avoid or diminish the threat of harsh legal consequences may produce some short term results but they do not produce a confident citizenry … in fact, such stratagems are counter productive to that end. When you attempt to intimidate the masses with threats of social disgrace, reproach, or banishment, you may produce silent compliance while fomenting resentment. When the powerful and elite are allowed to limit or remove options in exchange for compliance, you may be able to coerce an obedient following but at the loss of personal integrity. You can terrorize a group with vague threats of unpredictable harm until they give in to your demands but you will never have their loyalty. All of these approaches weaken our confidence in human justice systems. The intimidation of tyrants, oppressive dogma, unjust social order, and deceitful power struggles threaten the greater autonomy in our individual lives of peaceful coexistence. The corrupt give up on continuing the struggle for a just and peaceful life. They/you do this to pursue one extremism or another for self serving purposes. They/you are caught up in the great race toward mutual destruction. I realize you have been unable to consider another way. more_or_less_