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To: E. Charters who wrote (58834)4/20/2008 4:26:24 PM
From: marcos  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 78405
 
Bits of history can be vivid enough that people remember them, even parts that others classify as 'ancient' ... note that on the kentish coast 1066 remains very much on the mind, and for good slices of the population here it will always be 1814 ... they used to work indians to death in those mines, it was a one-way trip, no pay no benefits no pension, word got around and stayed around, it was one thing to do a little hand digging or placer yourself, but mamá don't let your sons grow up to be miners, not for the foreigners ... dissolute damned and despairful, crippled and palsied and slain, así la senda minera - ¡fíjate! - que no seas rehén

But you're right, there's a buck in it, and they'll figure that out ... in six months perhaps ... starts to make don Randy's 'in two weeks' look positively hasty, doesn't it

Manhattan was trying to move half a town, in a politically charged area, in a time more turbulent than others for the country ... big open pit in a populated area with history of centuries, good luck with that, i played the stock but always realised there was no way to know how it would go without an extended stay in that town, undercover, just hanging out as a simple turista, even then stand a good chance of getting it wrong

One thing to keep in mind, when you're looking at these 'poor' people, and deciding what's best for them, is that more than a few don't feel themselves all that poor, really, they tend to be better off than their parents, who were better off than their grandparents, and they have land to grow enough to eat, build a reasonable house, their kids go to school ... they'd like more of course, most all of us do, but you have to convince them that you have the path to more, and a grand wave of the arm with a big smile won't do it, they've seen this before and suffered the consequences ... there can be a lot more to it than money too, not everybody wants a cash economy, it means trusting too many others in the world at large, which can be seen as unwise, also as distracting from what is important, family

Corruption - well you're not dealing with heritage of english yeomanry here are you, senses of individual rights and duty can be pretty thin on the ground ... in fact there are groups who reject the very idea, feel that land can be held only in common, even that the people belong to the land not the other way round, which means that absolutely everybody must agree before any changes are made ... there you're up against fundamental distinctions in philosophy, good luck ... but, back to corruption, there was no indian or spanish Hume, or Locke or Smith, or Burke, and very importantly no Luther, Wesley, Wycliffe - all they had in LA were memories of inca domination and the priests and the mafiosos sent by the crown ... plus ties are to family, overwhelmingly so, only slowly now to larger groups, first their immediate region and neighbours and then later 'the nation', while outsiders to each group are always both suspect and legitimate prey ... all goes together to make more corruption than, for example, here ... it's not unknown here though, and gradually gets knocked back there, as some become aware of membership in the species, and more comfortable with things like a cash economy and division of labour and representative democracy and all that good stuff that we so love to crow about

These nations are not run by africans though, or russian gangsters or zionists or halliburtonists or han chinese [yet], there's a far better chance of doing business to mutual benefit than exists on most of the planet, imho ... they're not Quebec or Idaho or Mexico, for sure, but just watch, those places may not forever be immune to the want-more syndrome

History you say, well let's get down and dirty, a friend is involved somewhat experimenting with this, maybe gives some perspective to local history, which goes back not centuries but millennia - en.wikipedia.org