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To: gg cox who wrote (68982)	4/30/2008 2:47:58 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Thanks for the reference to VRB batteries. I read quite a bit of it [enough to get a general idea of what they are up to]. At present they are not in the residential and small business market. I suppose there are plenty of bigger places which can use their systems if the price is right. Being in the environmental business, I suppose they have to use words like sustainability, and counting how much CO2, methane and SOX they put out compared with lead acid batteries, but that stuff makes me feel queasy as though I'm getting enmeshed in a cult business dependent on lunatics for profit, which is not what I like to invest in. Lead acid batteries put out so little CO2, CO etc that they are irrelevant. Diesel generators are noisy brutes, so it would be nice to have batteries to recharge so engines could be turned off in the suburbs at night. And anyway, a diesel generator would produce too much electricity for just a little laptop to keep working. So storage would still be needed. Photovoltaics, working only in the sun, require battery backup unless a person is happy to do things when the sun is out and sleep when it's not, just as nature intended. If they started developing little batteries, I'd be more interested. The fear about sulphuric acid is amusing, with lots of regulatory costs and hassles. I suppose chemicals have to be controlled because things will go wrong and some planning is necessary to avoid pouring sulphuric acid into a fish farm etc. Mqurice

To: gg cox who wrote (68982)	5/8/2008 12:23:55 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

GG, while storage is the issue, I don't know that VRB is the solution. My BP Oil colleague and I used to discuss the fact that the industrial revolution internal combustion engine still ruled power supply after a century. 20 years on and it's still top of the pops. It's a hugely complex Gordian Knot of levers, cams, bearings, pulleys, belts, cogs, pistons, valves, nuts, washers, bolts, shafts, pumps, chains, screws, turbines, generators, spark plugs, cables, gears, friction disks, hydraulics and so on, overlaid with silicon electronics, with engine management systems controlling each compression cycle, and myriad other functions from brakes to suspension and creature comforts. It has become more and more complex, sophisticated, efficient and cheaper per bang. From a puddle of pre industrial revolution technology, one would never say, "Hey let's build a car with an engine like this under the bonnet". It's like seeing a puddle of pre DNA amino acids and other primordial hydrocarbon goop and saying, "Hey, let's build a human - say 6 billion of them". I'm developing a little one person [and not too hefty at that] city car with five moving parts = the wheels and the vehicle itself. Okay, it probably won't be that simple as there might be an open and shut glovebox and some knobs to twiddle on a radio. It's in the shed, coming alon well. Maybe some vanadium and sulphuric acid batteries would be just the ticket. Fuel cells seem more the sort of thing I'm after - a quick refuelling with methanol or ethanol and we'd be off again. But maybe batteries could be unplugged and swapped for another ready to go. That would be even quicker than refueling by pumping 100 litres of liquid. Just unplug the discharged battery and plug in another. Hmmmm... food for thought. Mqurice