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To: gg cox who wrote (69198)	5/9/2008 12:49:26 AM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Total cycles of 10,000 is a LOT. City cars lasting for 10 years would need battery replacement say 200 times a year = 2000 times. Even if, for example for taxis, they were replaced daily or slightly more than daily, that would only be 4000 times. So a vehicle could use the same batteries for 20 years, replacing them daily, and still be within the life of the VRB battery. That means the capital cost of the battery could be spread over a long time and over a LOT of refills. Vanadium and sulphuric acid are cheap materials, so the VRB batteries should be cheap to make. Comparable with lead acid and lithium ion batteries I guess. Half the energy density of lead acid batteries isn't necessarily a show stopper, though it's quite a disadvantage. By 1800 W/kg, I guess you mean watt-hours/kilogram, in which case lithium ion batteries are vastly better than VRB types, even if the capital cost of lithium ion types is quite a lot more. I suppose VRB is keen to get their batteries in use in vehicles, so if they say they are unsuitable, then it's a good bet they are unsuitable. Mqurice

To: gg cox who wrote (69198)	5/9/2008 2:48:41 AM
From: elmatador	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

Lead acid? Bioenergy production surpasses hydroelectric power in Brazil www.chinaview.cn 2008-05-09 10:15:53 Print RIO DE JANEIRO, May 8 (Xinhua) -- Energy produced from sugarcane exceeded hydroelectric power production in Brazil in 2007, energy officials said Thursday. This is the first time in Brazilian history that bioenergy production has surpassed that of hydroelectric power, said Mauricio Tolmasquim, president of the government's Energy Research Enterprise. The energy made from sugarcane products represented 16 percent of the country's total power generation last year, while hydroelectric power accounted for 14.7 percent, Tolmasquim said. "Sugarcane has become more important in the energy matrix than hydro power. Everything points to a tendency that is here to stay," he said. Bioenergy production was only beaten by power generation from oil and gas, which accounted for 36.7 percent of power generation in the South American country in 2007. Tolmasquim said renewable energy, including hydro sources, charcoal and sugarcane derivatives, accounted for 46.4 percent of Brazil's entire production without overcharging consumers, as they do not require subsidies. He also said that some 70 percent of the growth in energy consumption last year was in renewable sources. As for criticism of ethanol for its alleged negative influence on food production, Tolmasquim said the pace of development of this type of energy in Brazil is "irreversible." He added that Brazil is renowned internationally for having a clean and renewable energy mix. !