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To: arun gera who wrote (34643)	5/10/2008 8:03:49 PM
From: Elroy Jetson	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 217732

I doubt that agriculture is associated with corruption and crime. In my experience the bribe problem is far more common in Mexico City than it is in rural agricultural areas of Mexico, or provincial cities like Guadalajara. You are probably even less likely to find a corrupt policeman in the farm areas of Nebraska than you are in Los Angles. But in the entire US the area you are most likely to find a corrupt policeman is in the state of Louisiana, in both the rural and urban areas. Louisiana is a state which operates on the Napoleonic Code, in addition to the English Common Law used in the rest of the US. Perhaps that's one reason why. But perhaps not, and I'm sure there are many other reasons. I think culture is the primary determinant of crime and corruption, but how this evolves is complex. .

To: arun gera who wrote (34643)	5/11/2008 4:37:40 AM
From: elmatador	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 217732

When you call bribe a bribe it is visible and measureable. When you disguise the bribe, then the bribe is there but the Elroy's of this world don't see it. Once in the 80's my friend -a wealthy meat distributor driving a BMW series 7- was driving at some 170Kmh in Austria. Police stopped him. I said: "get ready to be fined." He said: "we will see." He showed the car papers, and driver's license. "Herr so and so, you must be careful, I will let you out this time, next will be fined. Have a nice trip." He threw the driver's license on my lap. And told me to look. There was an array of plastic cards and a special card. He was a contributor to some policemen association. The card said -he explained- he was not only a contributor, but a long time contributor and a heavy contributor. That means once you are rich and you know the means and ways you can bribe legally. Of course in the stratum where Elroy lives he doesn’t know those things and he believes in the rule of the law.

To: arun gera who wrote (34643)	5/11/2008 4:49:00 AM
From: elmatador	Respond to of 217732

"laws are like sausages — the less you know about how they are made the more respect you have for them." That's why Elroy likes the rule of the law! Shallow knowledge! The oldest known citation for the comparison of laws and sausages is given in the Yale Book of Quotations (2006), as coming from the McKean Miner of Smethport, PA on 22 April 1869: "Saxe says in his new lecture 'Laws, like sausages, cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made'." It speculated that "Saxe" may refer to lawyer-poet John Godfrey Saxe. Other than Bismarck, this quote, or one of its many variations, has been attributed to Winston Churchill, Benjamin Disraeli, Clarence Darrow, Mark Twain, Kaiser Wilhelm, Honoré Gabriel Riqueti, comte de Mirabeau, Betty Talmadge (the wife of former Georgia senator Herman Talmadge), and an "Old Mr. Hawes", an Illinois state legislator "many years" prior to 1896, as quoted by John W. Ross, in a speech (9 October 1896). There are many variants that have been published in print or on the Internet: If you like laws and sausages, you should never watch either one being made. Laws are like sausages — it is best not to see them being made. Laws are like sausages. It is better not to see them being made. Laws are like sausages. You should never see them made. Laws are like sausages. You should never watch them being made. Law and sausage are two things are two things you do not want to see being made. No one should see how laws or sausages are made. To retain respect for sausages and laws, one must not watch them in the making. The making of laws like the making of sausages, is not a pretty sight. Je weniger die Leute darüber wissen, wie Würste und Gesetze gemacht werden, desto besser schlafen sie nachts. The less the people know about how sausages and laws are made, the better they sleep in the night. (No citation exists for where this German phrase or this translation originated).