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To: unclewest who wrote (249668)	5/12/2008 7:12:32 PM
From: Ish	Respond to of 793843

Combat and police loads are typically "9 ball" 00 12 ga. I'm just following their line of thinking. <<If you have kids in the house or any other reason to be concerned about penetrating walls...recommend you rethink that.>> Years ago we had a place to shoot that had an old fruit vender's wagon. At 100 yards the 00 got there quicker than a .22 and it was 9 .38 pellets. This wagon was framed with 2x4s with plywood sheathing and covered with tin. At 50 yards the 00 went through everything. Not something I'd want to shoot in the house.

To: unclewest who wrote (249668)	5/12/2008 8:40:58 PM
From: mistermj	Respond to of 793843

AMMUNITION FOR THE SELF-DEFENSE FIREARM Opinion by Anonymous Preface by Chuck Hawks, Managing Editor I decided to reproduce this rather long piece here partly because it is clearly the author's desire that it be widely disseminated. Another part is that it makes interesting reading, and I enjoy a good read as much as anyone. Although the author has some strong opinions and I don't necessarily agree with all of them, they are informed opinions and worthy of careful consideration. Actually, I have an idea about the identity of "Anonymous," which is another reason this piece appears here, but it is the author's desire to remain amonymous, and in any case I could be wrong. Self-defense ammunition is a field in which improvements are continually taking place. In order to keep this article timely, in February of 2006 I took the liberty of revising some sections in minor ways to keep them up to date and to include recent information. Enjoy Ammunition For The Self-Defense Firearm ======================= 12 Gauge If you simply want to know the best defense load, go out and buy: 12 gauge 2 3/4" shell 00 buckshot. You shall live happily ever after, as this is the most effective man-stopping firearm cartridge yet devised by man. I recommend the Federal "Classic" (F127-00), Winchester Super-X (X12RB5) or Remington Buckshot (SP12BK-5PK00) as the best double-ought buckshot defense rounds. One of these rounds is virtually equal to a nine-round burst from a submachine gun, with every round hitting. Effective shotgun technique, of course, requires that one hits with each shot. Don't think that you can merely point the shotgun in the general direction of your attacker and let fly. Read Ayoob's book 'Stressfire II: Advanced Combat Shotgun' for the low-down on good shotgun skills and then practice, practice, practice. Many experienced shooters prefer #4 or #1 buckshot to 00. I really cannot argue, but Lt. Marshall is on record as stating that 00 is superior, both in penetration and stopping power. Good enough for me, but if you have a #4 or #1 buckshot jones, go ahead (Ayoob favors #1). Stay away from 2 3/4" Magnum or 3" Magnum loads, however - the brutal kick of these rounds makes them a bad choice, and you gain nothing in stopping power over the 2 3/4" standard loads. Controllability is important, and standard 12 gauge shells have quite enough kick as it is. A note on shotgun spread: firing your shotgun does not create a diabolical cone of doom destroying all in its path. If you have a typical defense or "riot" gun with an 18"-20" open-choked "cylinder" barrel, the pellets will spread out about 1" for every yard of range. This means that the spread of pellets fired across a large room (18') will be 6" or so, a circle the size of a coffee cup saucer. At 50 feet, the spread will be the size of a large pizza (16"). Test-fire your shotgun at various ranges, using big white butcher paper targets to get an idea of the pattern you can expect. It is a common misconception that blasting at foes ten feet away will take out two or three of them. The spread at that range is just three inches, so you can see that I meant it when I said that the shotgun must be skillfully aimed and fired just like handguns and rifles. The shotgun is simply more likely to hit - and stop - the attacker. Two things to keep in mind about birdshot. The first is that birdshot is as lethal as buckshot at close range. Don't believe for a second that you can just wound someone with birdshot and he'll go on to live another day. If you aren't justified in killing a man, you aren't justified in wounding him, either. Never "shoot to wound." I once again direct you to read Ayoob's 'In the Gravest Extreme' and learn the truth. The second thing is that birdshot makes a lot of sense for home defense. I keep my home-defense 12 gauge loaded with two #4 birdshot rounds followed by 00 buck. Birdshot is much less likely to penetrate thin interior walls and kill innocent people on the other side, and has lower recoil than buckshot for faster follow-up shots (I live in a thin-walled apartment house, however - if I lived in a solid house with a lot of land around, I would definitely choose buckshot instead). The stopping power of birdshot should not be under-estimated: at ranges out to thirty feet or so, birdshot is virtually a solid column of lead. Choose any #4 or BB high brass lead hunting load. I like the Federal "Classic Lead Hi-Brass" #4 birdshot (HI26-4) and Winchester "Super-X" #4 high brass birdshot (X12-4), but there is little difference between the various choices. Buy whichever you please. If you're a bird hunter, use your favorite hunting shells as long as they are #6 or larger. chuckhawks.com