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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: KonKilo who wrote (65464)	5/13/2008 7:29:07 AM
From: DanD	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 541789

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Prior to the enactment of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution in 1868, the Supreme Court generally held that the substantive protections of the Bill of Rights did not apply to state governments. Subsequently, under the Incorporation doctrine the Bill of Rights have been broadly applied to limit state and local government as well. For example, in the Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet (1994), the majority of the court joined Justice David Souter's opinion, which stated that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion." 14th amendment is the "equal protection" clause. Also the one that won George W. Bush's appeal of the Florida recount in 2000. Dan D.

To: KonKilo who wrote (65464)	5/13/2008 10:56:22 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541789

I'll look it up if Karen doesn't beat us all to it. <g> I was a good girl this morning and got an early start at the pool. Came home to sixty posts, so I trust y'all have it sorted out by now.

To: KonKilo who wrote (65464)	5/13/2008 11:09:53 AM
From: Sam	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 541789

It's in the Constitution, right? I posted this excerpt from a passage in James' Madison's Notebooks a few months ago. It expresses his opinion about the constitutionality of prayer in public places: Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom? In strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative. The Constitution of the US forbids every thing like an establishment of a national religion. The law appointing Chaplains establishes a religious worship for the national representatives, to be performed by ministers of religion, elected by a majority of them; and these are to be paid out of national taxes. Does not this involve the principle of a national establishment, applicable to a provision for a religious worship for the constituent as well as of the representative body, approved by the majority, and conducted by ministers of religion paid by the entire nation? The establishment of the chaplainship to Congress is a palapable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles. The tenets of the Chaplains elected shut the door of worship against the members whose creeds and consciences forbid a participation in that of the majority. To say nothing of other sects, this is the case with that of Roman Catholics and Quakers who have always had members in one or both of the legislative branches. Could a Catholic clergyman every hope to be appointed a Chaplain? To say that religious principles are obnoxious or that his sect is small, is to lift the veil at once and exhibit in its naked deformity the doctrine that religious truth is to be tested by numbers, or that the major sects have a right to govern the minor. --James Madison, 1817 Madison's distinction of Catholics and Quakers from other Christian sects is instructive. As a Jew who was in elementary school at about the time prayer in public schools was outlawed, I have to say that I agree with Madison. In fact, my 5th grade teacher had us say the Lord's Prayer every morning, despite the fact that almost half the class was Jewish. I refused to say it one morning. I just didn't want to. The teacher went ballistic, and sent me to the principal. He backed me, and told the teacher to allow me to sit quietly when it was being said (she had us stand to say it and the Pledge of Allegiance). In a matter of weeks, the prayer itself was dropped. But that wasn't MS or AL. There were numerous Jewish people living in the area, and most of the Christians weren't, shall we say impolitely, crazy about saying it anyway. Only a few, including this teacher.