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To: koan who wrote (79217)	5/19/2008 3:12:56 PM
From: sageyrain	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116555

"And the straight world always parroted your ideas of what was happening and that it was soem grand conspiracy" If that's true, then they were sorely misled. No grand conspiracy, a grand ruse. Nothing is hidden here. It's all been published, mostly in dusty tomes that nobody's interested in. If it's not in popular sources, such as your trusted nightly news talking head, or mass published books, etc. it is not on their radar screens. Excellent example concerning man made global warming: Message 24491929 There are thousands more, they just take quite a bit more time to find for those that have the will. "Most people didn't get it then and you apparently don't get it now." This is a very vague statement, not sure what you mean here. My interpretation presently is that the vast majority of people look at the hippie era with a mild sense of nostalgia (except maybe those who were of parental age during that era). I don't know anybody in my social circle that looks back on them as a product of a conspiracy, communist or otherwise. I think a majority see them as a somewhat wreckless, but idealistically driven group. Is this wrong? "I was there from the very beginning and saw it." It would be very interesting to have sort of a summary timeline of your memories of that time. Maybe you have posted such elsewhere. edit: did you see it, or did you do it? "No one listened to them and Hoffman turned out to be nothing in the end. We knew he was nothing in the beginning." So what is the point you are making? Does that invalidate his observation? You say he was nothing and crazy, again, some clarification would be good. Would the hippie movement have been any different had such crazies not been out there early, doing rabble rousing. Were you out there, involved, before or at the same time that they came on the scene? Did the actions of these crazies not inspire others to act, albeit perhaps with a different approach. Were these crazies really such nothings? I find this very interesting, I don't really have a strong view either way.

To: koan who wrote (79217)	5/19/2008 4:11:04 PM
From: sageyrain	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116555

"And the straight world.........." This statement here bothered me, and I couldn't quite grasp why when I first read it, but then it hit me. It relates to the previous post that mentioned "45 years on". So what are you now? Are you still a Hippie? Do you live by all the ideals that were central and dear to you at that time, and what were those? I only know of one example of my older siblings friends remaining true and living in the ideas they embraced in the 60's. They live very simply in a rural setting (no electricity) and just get by with small scale farming and selling their own crafts. All the others of this group went on to seek money and big houses, cars, etc. How do you explain this? I think I already did. They were reprogrammed. So the above sentence fragment strikes me as quite funny based on your conversations at SI. Going to work on an oil pipeline, working for state gov., selling real estate. Quite straight, quite straight. Could very well be wrong as I don't really know you, just very interested in your viewpont of what appears to me as cognitive dissonance.