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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: quehubo who wrote (69427)	5/30/2008 6:14:42 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 542139

Abu Graib was "used" for a lot of people who had nothing to do with Al Qaeda, and many people who were probably completely innocent. Al Qaeda is a very small part of what is going on in Iraq. Much (most?) of the violence is carried out by rival gangs- Shiite and Suni, some financed by other regional states, and much of it is indigenous. Al Qaeda's attraction to the Iraqis was never very great- they are much more invested in their own power struggle, and most of the violence stems from that, and will continue to do so. I'm not sure why you don't mention that, and you focus on Al Qaeda. It's like looking at inner city violence and just focusing on the drive bys. Sure, there are drive by shootings, but they aren't the majority of the violence. "Terrorists" may expect to be tortured when captured, but your average Iraqi on the street probably doesn't, and mistakes were made in jailing Iraqis. I'm glad I could share this with you, so that you will now know just how spurious some of the Abu Graib detentions were. Makes the whole thing a little more serious, doesn't it? query.nytimes.com

To: quehubo who wrote (69427)	5/31/2008 5:35:05 AM
From: Cogito	Respond to of 542139

>>That is non sense. Al Qaeda in Iraq has had the tide turn against it because of their brutality against fellow Muslims. Al Qaeda has lost the PR war because of the way the fought the war. Abu Graib was only able to be used for Al Qaeda and democrats against our nation's effort in Iraq because the media and the democrats desire to get Bush. Gitmo, Abu Graib, geez the terrorists expect to be tortured to death if caught just like they do to our soldiers when they catch them.<< Quehebo - All I said about Al Qaeda in Iraq was that they have been largely defeated. I didn't say why or how, so I don't see why you would call what I said nonsense. (Which is one word, by the way.) What you and so many others seem to fail to grasp about why it's wrong to be torturing prisoners in Abu Grahib or Guantanamo or anywhere else is that not all of the people we capture are actually guilty. We do make mistakes. Many of the people held for years at Guantanamo have been released because there was no evidence they had done anything wrong. It's not OK to torture innocent people in the name of freedom and justice. Plus, it's been demonstrated time and time again that when you torture people, they'll say anything, and you can't rely on it being the truth. >>Islamofascists will be around for some time. An organization supported by a nation able to coordinate large scale spectacular attacks (9-11) or bigger is what has been destroyed. A handful of guys planning can do allot of damage, what do you suggest we do? << Once again, Al Qaeda in Iraq did not exist prior to our invasion. So if you're looking for nonsense, you can find it in the paragraph above this one. - Allen