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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bearcatbob who wrote (70238)	6/2/2008 12:36:14 PM
From: Dale Baker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542008

What is going on now is absolute nonsense! Pejorative terms like "nonsense" and !!!!!!!!! don't advance the debate, and we can do without them if possible. Otherwise that's all people would do, scream "Nonsense!!!" at one another like other threads. I see plenty on this thread that I think is moronic crap but I am not going to lower the debate by calling it that. Thanks.

To: Bearcatbob who wrote (70238)	6/2/2008 1:10:12 PM
From: Sam	Respond to of 542008

You act like that is a new "argument." It has been bandied about and repeated ad nauseum. And answered. Of course there have been warming periods in the past. And yes, they were burning wood and releasing CO2 into the atmosphere. But the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere wasn't even close to what it is now. You have to go back millions of years to get the readings of CO2 that we are getting now. A little warming wouldn't be a bad thing. But both the rate of increase and the absolute increase that we are/will be getting will be too much for many species, and for the vast majority of glaciers in the world. The water that is locked up in those glaciers will be released, and cause the sea rise and some of the flooding. Look, I don't have the time today to go over this in detail, I've already spent too much time on the thread this morning. I have to get some real work done, sorry. I'll try to remember to get back to it later in the week, if you actually want to ehar about it.

To: Bearcatbob who wrote (70238)	6/2/2008 9:44:02 PM
From: Sam	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542008

In prior periods of warmer climate the earth prospered and did not end. I read yesterday about the time when England was a wine exporter in the early second millenium (Medevil Warm Period - Little Ice Age). I still don't have time to answer this in depth myself, so I'll just point you to one answer. There are plenty of other people who have also given answers to it. The Medieval Warm Period was just as warm as today Objection: It was just as warm in the Medieval Warm Period as today, in fact Greenland was green and they were growing grapes in England. This one often comes with additional anecdotal evidence, but it is not often useful to get into those details, just refer to the wealth of proxy studies that refute this idea. Answer: There is actually no good evidence that the MWP was indeed a globally warm period comparable to today. Regionally, there may have been places that did exhibit notable warmth but all of the various global proxy reconstructions agree that it is warmer now and the temperature is rising faster than at any time in the last one or even two thousand years. Anecdotal evidence like that above can never tell you a global story. NOAA presents a whole selection of proxy studies together with the data they are based on and these can be found here: ncdc.noaa.gov Specifically, they have this to say about the MWP: "The idea of a global or hemispheric "Medieval Warm Period" that was warmer than today however, has turned out to be incorrect." ncdc.noaa.gov In specific answer to the "grapes used to grow in England" bit, I like to point people here: english-wine.com illconsidered.blogspot.com