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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Steve Lokness who wrote (71811)	6/12/2008 11:28:48 AM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 542141

wild herds and wild ecosystems can break down when man steps into them to harvest resources. That makes sense in theory and perhaps in practice elsewhere (certainly in the past, we invaded and destroyed with no thought to the consequences) but someone posted that Caribou population in ANWR has increased since 78. It doesn't seem to have forced them out of the environment. google.com While the proposed new drilling is apparently in an area that might force the caribou to shift their calving fields to a less healthy place, the solution offered is directional drilling coming in from an angle so as not to displace those calving fields. As long as the experts in biology and the environment work hand in hand with the policymakers to avoid destruction, then isn't that the best solution for extreme positions to find common ground?

To: Steve Lokness who wrote (71811)	6/12/2008 11:34:27 AM
From: Mary Cluney	Respond to of 542141

<<<Frankly nothing will be done about the conservation of oil until the price gets to where it hurts. Exactly! The more oil you put on the market the lower the price.>>> It is probably far more complicated than that. It is probably more like herding cats. There are producers with a variety of agenda and not all will pay attention strictly to supply and demand. There are regulators from a variety of states each with their own agenda - and for many supply and demand may be secondary or tertiary. There are a variety of consumers - many with different income levels and different needs. There are speculators - most likely the purist in terms of agenda - they are out to maximize profit. There are do gooders out to save the planet. There are free market fundamentalist willing to do anything to allow the most ruthless to pursue their agenda. And then there are a mixture of all of the above. Bottom line - it is messy. Understanding is difficult. To do anything about it (conservation or whatever) is about as easy as herding cats.

To: Steve Lokness who wrote (71811)	6/12/2008 12:23:32 PM
From: ManyMoose	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 542141

Your nose is longer. So at last we come to agreement on some things. Do you belong to the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation? If so, that's good. It's the environmental organization that puts its money where its mouth is. rmef.org If your elk hunting was interrupted by timber harvest, that is only temporary. In due time you should be able to go back and hunt. About one quarter of the elk I've taken were in wilderness areas, including my last which I had to pack out two miles on my back. The others were taken where I could see stumps all around. Timber harvesting actually benefits elk habitat if it's done properly. It encourages forage plants. The trick is to balance elk hiding cover requirements with forage requirements. There is a way to do that, and when I was active in the field I was very attentive to it. Not just elk, but pileated woodpeckers, spotted owls, pine marten, and all forest creatures. Past mistakes can only be avoided if we understand all the facts correctly, and balance human needs with the needs of the ecosystem. From close personal involvement in ecosystem management, I can tell you that ecosystems are much more resilient than they are given credit for. The fear mongering and hype about them do a disservice, in my opinion. My son lives in a gated community with upscale homes, and there are deer, bobcats, ducks, geese, beavers, cranes, and coyotes. I've seen deer from his back window. They dropped fawns just below his house. Sitting on my own front porch talking on my cell phone last year, I saw a four point buck walking down the street as if he owned the place. Last winter a few blocks away a nice bull moose was photographed in somebody's front yard. We also have quails, bald eagles, osprey, ducks, geese, cranes, raccoons, and porcupines.