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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Cogito who wrote (73054)	6/19/2008 4:15:06 PM
From: ManyMoose	Respond to of 541875

Your edited response is much more logical, although I still disagree. In regards to the Second Amendment, I believe Obama and Clinton both want to have their cake and eat it too. From the link Rambi provided, for which I do not vouch but have no reason to doubt: Sens. Obama And Clinton "Quietly" Support The Ban, But Their Positions Are Unclear: Obama And Sen. Clinton "Quietly" Support The D.C. Gun Ban. "[T]he Democrats Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have quietly supported the city's position." (Elana Schor, "Supreme Court Tests Right To Own Guns," The [London] Guardian, 3/17/08) * Sen. Clinton's Campaign Seems To Be Avoiding Going On Record. "The campaign of Mr. Obama's Democratic rival, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, did not respond to repeated requests for comment on the Heller case." (Gary Emerling, "Nation Awaits D.C. Handgun Ruling," The Washington Times, 3/17/08) Currently, Obama's Campaign Refuses To State His Position. "Jen Psaki, a spokeswoman for Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, said Mr. Obama 'believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right, and he greatly respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms.' 'He also believes that the Constitution permits state and local governments to adopt reasonable and common-sense gun safety measures,' she said, but would not elaborate on the whether the senator supports the D.C. gun ban." (Gary Emerling, "Nation Awaits D.C. Handgun Ruling," The Washington Times, 3/17/08) * Asked About D.C.'s Gun Ban On The Campaign Trail, Obama Did Not Take A Stance. "[A]sked today about the DC handgun ban currently being reviewed by the US Supreme Court, Obama declined to take a position for or against its constitutionality ..." (David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08) NOTE: In The Past, Obama Has Expressed Support For The Ban. "Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constitutional." (James Oliphant and Michael J. Higgins, "Court To Hear Gun Case," Chicago Tribune, 11/20/07) In The Past, Obama Has Advocated National Gun-Control Legislation, But Now Claims To Support Local Gun Laws: Obama Has Called For National Gun-Control Legislation. "On the issue of prohibiting citizens from carrying concealed weapons, Obama said he believes national legislation should be passed to 'prevent other states' laws [allowing citizens to conceal their guns] from threatening the safety of Illinois residents." (John Chase, "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04) * Obama: "National legislation will prevent other states' flawed concealed-weapons laws from threatening the safety of Illinois residents." (David Mendell, "Democratic Hopefuls Vary A Bit On Death Penalty," Chicago Tribune, 2/20/04) Now, Obama Claims To Support Rights Of Local Jurisdictions To Make Gun Laws. "[A]sked today about the DC handgun ban currently being reviewed by the US Supreme Court, Obama ... did express broad support for the rights of local jurisdictions to make such decisions for themselves." (David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08) Obama: "The city of Chicago has gun laws, so does Washington, DC ... The notion that so mehow local jurisdictions can't initiate gun safety laws to deal with gangbangers and random shootings on the street isn't born out by our Constitution." (David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08) gop.com snipurl.com

To: Cogito who wrote (73054)	6/19/2008 5:27:04 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 541875

There are many different interpretations of the 2nd amendment- some of the strictest holding that it really only applies to militias. "Another major point of contention is whether it protects an individual right to personal firearms[5] or a collective State militia right.[6] At present, two of the thirteen federal circuits have adopted an individual rights view. District of Columbia v. Heller is currently under review by the Supreme Court, to resolve this jurisdictional split.[7] There is also a "modified collective" view that holds the right is protected for individuals to bear arms based on their needs while serving in a militia.[8]" en.wikipedia.org While many people WISH the 2nd amendment clearly gave every American the right to hold their guns (of all sizes and varieties) until someone can pry them out of their cold dead fingers- the truth of the amendment is far from clear- despite the screams to the contrary from the death grip folks. Calling someone "clueless" is often a substitute for substantive argument- which is always more difficult than name calling, and is especially difficult when complicated legal case law and statute interpretation are at stake. Nuff said.