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To: JohnG who wrote (80524)	6/23/2008 5:34:55 PM
From: Metacomet	Respond to of 116555

When an inexperienced guy that is such a skillful orator comes on the scene it is a little scarry to see normally level headed people so charmed by nonspecific oratory. I never considered Bush to be a particularly skillful orater, but you are certainly right about the damage that can be wrought when simple people are sucked in by an inexperienced bozo.... I think we are lucky this time to at least have a leading candidate with obvious intellect and ability.

To: JohnG who wrote (80524)	6/23/2008 6:19:17 PM
From: koan	Respond to of 116555

If I get you correctly, you think I am stupid because I like Obama? And we do elect representatives. If you think I am being naive about Obama, what makes you so sure you know more than I? We have a difference of opinion that is all. Do you like Bush and his policies? You guys are talking in code. Say straight out what you think. This is the wrong forum for politics, so I will desist talking about Obama. I will debate you on the obama thread.

To: JohnG who wrote (80524)	6/23/2008 9:30:32 PM
From: JohnG	Respond to of 116555

koan. I certainly never said you or anyone on this thread was stupid. I have been talkingabout strategy, leadership, the weaknesses of democratic governments, and the ability of excellent orators to charm other men and so rule them. I have been talking about the elements of experience it is desirable to see im a man who aspires to be POTUS. I have been talking about leadership (what to do) decisions as opposed management (how to do it decisions). Certainly, the Bush administration has been disappointing in many ways. Failure is not an option for Bush now. Imagine that at someone could ask him, " If you realized attacking Iraq would get 100,000 people killed, but, in the end, not inhance the security of the US because it pushed Iraq into the arms of Iran, a country that (so far)stands as a bitter enemy to the US and a country that would love to achieve nuclear arms and obtain dominance over the entire middle east." This would not be an easy question to answer. This is because the answer implies that, as things stand, the US may well be MUCH worse off because of its efforts in Iraq. For this reason, it is not all over in Iraq and it is probably not all over in Iran. Despite the eloquant orations, Qbama, if elected, probably will not be able to simply leave Iraq.