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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: LindyBill who wrote (256616)7/3/2008 9:12:05 AM
From: gamesmistress  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 793845
 
How can anyone deny a law abiding citizen the right to defend himself and his family?

These idiots can. Their grandson and his friend pull an armed robbery on a Subway, the victims cooperate, and then they order one guy into the bathroom. However, that "victim" is a former Marine carrying a gun, and he pulls it out, killing one and hitting the other. And what do the grandparents say? He "shouldn't have taken the law into his own hands." They wonder why a man can "shoot 2 people and not go to jail." Criminey.

Police in Plantation, Florida, say ex-Marine within his rights to shoot armed robbers in Subway

By Akilah Johnson, Andrew Tran and Juan C. Ortega
South Florida Sun-Sentinel
Posted June 29 2007

Some are calling a former U.S. Marine a hero for shooting two men — killing one — during the botched robbery of a sandwich shop in Plantation. But the men's friends and family want to know how he could gun them down and not be charged.

John Lovell had just finished dinner at about 11:15 p.m. Wednesday when, Plantation police say, two men armed with guns rushed inside a Subway shop and demanded cash. After robbing the store, the men turned to Lovell. They wanted his money, police said.

But like his attackers, Lovell was armed.

The retired military man opened fire, shooting dead Donicio Arrindell, 22, of North Lauderdale, and critically injuring Fredrick Gadson, 21, of Fort Lauderdale.

Lovell, 71, of Plantation, has a valid concealed weapons permit and is not expected to be charged in the shooting, said police spokesman Detective Robert Rettig. Gadson, however, faces multiple felony charges that could include murder, he said. Under Florida law, anyone who commits a felony such as armed robbery resulting in a death can be held accountable for the capital offense.

"He feared for his life," Rettig said of Lovell. "And if he's in fear for his life, then he has a right to defend himself, even if it means severe bodily injury or death."

Florida law gives people the right of "self-defense without the duty to retreat." That means individuals can use deadly force virtually anywhere to prevent death or serious injury.

Lovell could not be reached for comment despite calls and visits to his home.

His attorney, Wesley White, of Yulee, near Jacksonville, said he has known Lovell for 19 years and described him as a "quiet Clint Eastwood-type you don't want to mess with." He is a former Marine who was a member of the helicopter detail that transported Presidents Kennedy and Johnson, White said.

Lovell, a retired Pan-Am and Delta Airline pilot, has held a concealed weapons permit since September 1990. Three months earlier, Plantation police had arrested him for having a loaded .9 mm and three extra clips behind the driver's seat of a Corvette without proper permits for the gun. The Broward State's Attorney's Office declined to file charges in that case.

According to a police statement:Arrindell ordered Lovell to hand over his wallet. He intentionally dropped it on the floor and refused to pick it up, saying he was afraid. That's when Arrindell ordered him into the women's restroom.

"The victim believed he would be executed and when he noticed [Arrindell] distracted ... reached behind his back, removed his loaded .45 caliber handgun from his holster and fired seven rounds," the statement said.

Arrindell was struck twice — once in the head and once in the stomach — and collapsed. Officers found him face down, wearing sunglasses and a bandanna, with a gun near his left hand. Gadson was hit in the chest and ran from the store. Police dogs found him in the hedges of a nearby office building and bank.

Both men were taken to Broward General Medical Center, where Arrindell died and Gadson was in critical condition Thursday.

Sebastian Shakespeare, 23, of Lauderhill, was going to buy a sandwich at the Subway at 1949 N. Pine Island Road when he saw Lovell, gun in hand, standing over Arrindell. A former employee, Shakespeare worked the night shift and often worried about getting robbed.

He said Lovell did a good deed. "A civilian was a hero."

Lovell's neighbor agreed.

"If I was in the same situation ... I hope I could've done the same thing," said Bryan Sklar, 45.

But Gadson's grandmother, Rosa Jones, said: "He ain't no hero. He is a murderer and God will serve justice."

She and her husband, Ivory Jones, pastor of a Fort Lauderdale church, sat on their front porch in Fort Lauderdale on Thursday wondering how a man could shoot two people and not go to jail.

They said their grandson sometimes hung with the wrong crowd but never got into legal trouble. According to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, he has no arrest record. They said Gadson, who never finished high school, got tired of low-wage jobs and was pursuing his GED.

Arrindell, friends said, found himself in a similar situation: no high school diploma and working odd jobs. So he went back to school. He was a man with past troubles, including a 2004 arrest for carrying a concealed weapon, but he was improving his life, they said. He recently bought a car and had a girlfriend.

Kathy East, 54, whose son went to school with Arrindell, said she took him in two years ago when he and his mother had a falling out.

"I'm absolutely stunned," she said Thursday.

sun-sentinel.com

miamiherald.com



To: LindyBill who wrote (256616)7/3/2008 1:00:56 PM
From: Joe Btfsplk  Respond to of 793845
 
watched FX's "30 Days" hosted by Morgan Spurlock

I watched part, and was surprised. I expected Spurlock to do a Michael Moore. He didn't.

At one point early on the anti-gun babe was persuaded to fire a shotgun. At the retort she dropped the muzzle to the ground and broke into uncontrollable sobbing.

Loosely reminded me of something from years ago. I was at a 2nd Amendment conference. It was covered by a chickie from MSNBC(?). She was intent on filming what and how everybody was carrying, was disappointed that no one would cooperate. Anyway we fell into a conversation. She was from NY, had hardly ever seen, let alone fired a weapon. After the conference she happily agreed to let some of the guys take her to a local range and get some experience. No idea how that turned out.

Also used to attend Washington Arms Collectors monthly shows; always hundreds of tables and thousand upon thousands of attendees. Almost without exception these were the types that make me comfortable with carry laws.

A local reporterette once charged through the gate, cameraman in tow, to expose this den of evil. Both were quickly and firmly escorted out. She was do agitated I doubt she noticed a couple hundred laughing at her. And for a nominal admission she could have had free wandering privileges, though sans camera.

Hoping the beneficial uses by the good guys will start to attract more media attention. It'll be a long, hard slog at best.