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Politics : Politics of Energy -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (586)	7/7/2008 9:02:16 AM
From: RetiredNow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 86355

1) you and mindmeld tend to talk about conservation and producing more domestic energy as mutually exclusive alternatives (as observed above, advocating more domestic production actually angers you) Not true. I think we should do both, but I am under no illusion like you that drilling more will help us get to energy independence. If you were to look at a pareto chart on the problem, you'd find that drilling more is a small solution compared to what conservation and alternative energy can do to impact prices and make our country more secure. We can do it all, but I will always prefer the high impact solutions. 2) you assume conservation has to be commanded by some collective decision imposed by the government. In reality, the only way meaningful conservation is gonna happen is people voluntarily responding to prices. See my previous post on this country needing to act as a collective instead of just being random do-gooders. Historically, countries that act as a collective tend to survive longer as independent organized bodies. Those that act as individuals with no regard for the collective, soon find themselves with no collective. It's the same for companies. If the leaders are good, then they have strategies, visions, and they execute on those to the benefit of the company. If they don't have good leaders that pull together collecgtive strategies, then those businesses eventually fail. Governments are no different. We elect leaders to lead on the biggest issues of the day, not to sit them out and hope that American individualism will win the day. That is a recipe for disaster, as we have seen from the last 8 years in this country.

To: Brumar89 who wrote (586)	7/7/2008 9:18:09 AM
From: Road Walker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 86355

If you're not in favor of foregoing producing more conventionally here, you should stop angrily objecting when someone advocates doing that. Like this: You can produce "more" oil and natural gas in the US and it won't make a bit of F'ing difference. Well if you guys would stop talking like drilling is a solution, and embrace the real opportunity, you might be met with less frustration. I suppose I should have said 2% - thats what a couple means literally and a couple is what you said... The couple of percentage points I was referring to is the unexploited US reserves compared to world production. Drill away but it probably won't equal a two year increase in China and India consumption. 1) you and mindmeld tend to talk about conservation and producing more domestic energy as mutually exclusive alternatives (as observed above, advocating more domestic production actually angers you) No you guys are the mutually exclusive guys. We are actually looking for a solution. You guys keep beating a dead horse for political one-ups-manship. 2) you assume conservation has to be commanded by some collective decision imposed by the government. In reality, the only way meaningful conservation is gonna happen is people voluntarily responding to prices. Government mandates just about everything that makes every auto "roadworthy". The 'free market' didn't put 100's of safety features in cars... the government did. The government currently has CAFE standards... this is not revolutionary, it's just recognizing a huge problem and adjusting standards to meet the national interest. When the rubber meets the road the government mandates almost everything from headlights to stop lights. Quit acting like an abused little libertarian and recognize reality.