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Politics : American Presidential Politics and foreign affairs -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: ManyMoose who wrote (28969)	7/14/2008 11:50:06 AM
From: DuckTapeSunroof	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 71588

Re: "This is a silly discussion." Everyone is entitled to an opinion.... (I said at the outset that this was just a theoretical legal discussion... and that quite likely no Judge in the land would ever have the guts to step into this minefield by accepting a case.) Re: "McCain was born of US citizens" (I ALSO said --- several times! --- that because he was born of two American citizens, that made him an AMERICAN CITIZEN, and that no one anywhere was disputing that. So, no sense in dragging out that point above - since it's has already and always been conceded.) The QUESTION posed was: Is he 'natural born' by the meaning of that Constitutional Amendment which places that extra, and higher, requirement upon anyone who desires to sit in the office of the Presidency..... Re: "on soil that is the equivalent of sovereign US territory." I have no idea what 'the equivalent of sovereign US territory' IS SUPPOSED TO LEGALLY MEAN. (Is that 'kinda tastes like chicken, or kinda tastes like Spam?) The facts of the matter may be few, but they are solidly part of American history: 1) The Canal Zone was never incorporated as part of the United States of America. Was never a State, and never a Territory. 2) Further proof of the fact that people who were BORN in the Canal Zone (prior to the law which was passed about one year after McCain's birth which changed the legal status...) were not legally American citizens MERELY BY VIRTUE OF HAVING BEEN BORN IN THE ZONE was given by the MANY CASES where the US government deported people who had been born in the Zone to foreign nations. --- You CANNOT 'deport' your own citizens, so this fact GIVES EXTRA WEIGHT TO THE POSITION THAT AMERICAN COURTS FROM THE TIME DID NOT CONSIDER THE ZONE TO BE AN 'INCORPORATED PART OF AMERICA'.

To: ManyMoose who wrote (28969)	7/14/2008 1:35:37 PM
From: DuckTapeSunroof	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 71588

The United States had PHYSICAL CONTROL of the Zone. (Similar perhaps to the physical control we had/have in, say, Iraq. Or in 'GITMO' - held under 'permanent lease' but never made legally part of the American nation and where, to this day, the President contends that because of this distinction American rules of jurisprudence do not apply because it is not 'American soil'.) Iraq and GITMO are not incorporated parts of America though, and neither was the Zone. The United States NEVER MADE the Zone a State. Never made it a Territory, and never annexed it into America proper. This legal distinction is what lies at the heard of the question of "Is someone born there 'naturally born' by the meaning of the US Constitution's section on requirements to be a President?" One year after McCain's birth Congress changed the law to make sure that someone born under such circumstances would be considered to be 'naturally born'. But, since the law was changed AFTER his birth, it cannot legally be applied to him, and the earlier law applies.