Hi Haim.
((There is no need for self blame about EU or US policies in the region and the recent moves of the Western Countries where done for good and substantiated reason which has not hit the news networks.))
This may be Haim. If you are privy to information that I am not, this may well be.
((Russia was invited to the club of the G7 out of good will and courtesy to appease their feeling of inferiority and give them a bust - not on merits!!))
OK ...
((The hope was that Russia would change its “spots” since the early Tsarist times and join the world nations in an effort of cooperation and mutual prosperity. India does it and I hope China will improve and be cooperative as it was recently))
Haim, in your opinion, why did the US and global community so fail to assist Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union? I don't want to suggest that Russia didn't contribute to its own suffering here, but it seemed to me that the Western powers largely assisted the oligarchs in raping Russia. I mean, didn't we really have a chance here to help Russia change her spots? To work with Russia to build institutions and mechanisms of civil society to transition to a modern society/economy? I'm sure the challenges must have been enormous. But I remember Stiglitz being appalled at how the Western powers implemented economic reform in Russia.
((Georgia actions and the presumed reasons given, prove that the present regime of Putin who grew up close to Stalin household did not change their “spots”. Why the pillage and destruction of infrastructure now in Georgia by the Russian army? why lying with a straight face to everyone?))
Hang on here Haim, didn't Georgia start this "war" by invading South Ossetia?
((Why the pillage and destruction of infrastructure now in Georgia by the Russian army?))
Well, I assume because Russia and Georgia are basically at war. The same reason the US behaves the way it does in Iraq, or any other nation behaves terribly during war. I don't view this as "spots" that are uniquely Russian.
((India China Brazil are much more qualified than Russia from an economic stand point and population stand point to join the G7 but they where not invited))
Sorry Haim, I'm not sure what this has to do with the discussion.
((Why Russia need "sphere of influence" and why so many in this world think so, is beyond me. ... Does Brazil demands a "sphere of influence" ? Does Italy demands "sphere of influence" ? Does Germany demands "sphere of influence" ?
Does France demands "sphere of influence" ? Does India demands "sphere of influence" ? … and the list goes on))
Of course Haim, all Nations need a "sphere of influence" if they are to be secure in their existence. Israel does. Germany does. India does. etc. Russia is no different. It's the terms of the "sphere of influence" to my mind that are the sticking point.
However, perhaps for the purposes of our discussion, "sphere of influence" is not just the need to feel "secure in one's existence", but reflects more the ability to project power. And why project power? Well to my mind, (i) for "national security" reasons (whatever that might be), and (ii) for the purposes of "profiting" from the projection of that power - in the form of being able to exploit the resources (both human and material) of the conquered land.
In this respect, I would assume the desire of Russia's elite to "project power" springs from the same well as any other societies elites' desire to project power, and profit from the projection of that power.
I'm not saying that Russia has a right to project power over its neighbors in an absolute sense. But it has as much right as the US and Europe have IMO. Now, if the objection to Russia's "projection of power" was really a matter of humanitarian concern, I would feel quite differently. However, it is very clear to me that the West's objection to Russia's projection of power is really about oil and power. And in this respect, I'm glad there is some other force in the world that has the ability to stand up and contest Western hegemony to the world's resources. What is it they say about absolute power?
((So please explain me why in heaven Russia with a 200 plus history of aggression, imperialistic expansion, occupation oppression and destruction of nations, (at least 30 to 40 millions under Stalin, Khrushchev and Brezhnev if by famine or gulags or plain execution) since Peter the Great, Russia deserves and demands "sphere of influence"?))
Because, they are a great power - once again. And significant powers demand a sphere of influence. China also is an emerging great power, and it too will demand its sphere of influence. Where I think the West has a wonderful opportunity, is we are in a position to negotiate, and if necessary go to war to effect, the "terms" of this sphere of influence. Just think, when the Iron Curtain fell, the West was genuinely in a position to the right thing in Russia. To help them evolve past their imperial and militaristic past - to genuinely help Russia evolve a civil society, gradually evolve a market economy, and still help ensure equitable distribution of wealth in a society. But nope, we bent them over, and gave it to them good. At least that's my sense of what went down.
The problem, as I see it, is that Western corporations and power elites do not want to share this power unless they can fully envelope their geopolitical rivals in the web of the global capitalist system - and by that I mean subject to the hegemony of Global Capital. And boy have those guys - the Central Banking ilk - done one heck of a job in managing the global economy lately.
And I think both Russia and China, to extent, balk at being subject to complete domination by Anglo finance, and the corporations which they finance and benefit from.
Just my opinion. And I am open to being convinced that my world view is naive and limited. But it's the best I've come up with so far.
((Read how and what Russian have done to the small nations they conquered or annexed, read about Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Tatarstan and the other many small nations east of the Ural mountains where to date Russia is pillaging their natural resources and amasses the wealth in Russia proper which is west of the Ural mountains north of the Caucasus Nations (Chechnya Dagestan etc.) and bordered by Ukraine Byelorussia and Baltic states etc.))
I get it Haim. It's what Imperialist powers do. I know that. It's what the France did in Angola, what the US did in Latin and Central American in the 1970s' and 1980's, and is doing today in Iraq. I get it.
My point is this isn't about good guys and bad guys. It's about the projection of power, and who owns and is able to exploit resources. It's the great game. Same as it ever was. And now the West has encircled Russia, and expanded NATO right to her borders. Brilliant.
((You as many others are rewarding a cruel aggressor who destroyed nation and continue to do so, letting Russia amass riches from resources that do not belong to them.))
Haim, perhaps you can see my perspective if you closely examine your statement above. Just imagine you were referring to the US and Iraq. Notice how easily the comment could be made if you simply substituted the word "Russia" for "US", like this (I'll embellish just for clarity's sake):
You as many others are rewarding a cruel aggressor [in Iraq] who destroyed a nation and continues to do so, letting the US amass riches from resources that do not belong to them.
I mean, it fits like a glove doesn't it. So my anger is, how can we (the Anglo and European powers) behave EXACTLY this way, yet call fowl when Russia does the same in her sphere of influence? Do you see my point Haim? I'm not so much arguing that Russia is right in her actions, as much as I'm saying the West calling fowl is the hight of hypocrisy - and in fact, they are actually playing the very game that they are accusing Russia of playing. Except when we play it, it's "spreading democracy to the infidels", and when Russia does it, it's "evil".
((I was borne and lived in Romania - Russia pillaged this country of their coal, oil, gold, grains and you name for years it attached wide swats of land like Bucovina and Moldova to Russia. Same with any other country they took over if under the USSR or installed puppet regimes like the CEE))
I had a very good Jewish friend (he no longer lives in my city), whose parents both grew up in Romania, and were in Romania at the outbreak of WWII. The stories he told me of, in particular, his grandfather on his father's side was remarkable. He was outside his village when then entire town was killed by the Nazis. With his home destroyed and everyone he loved killed, where was he to go? to had West towards Germany would be suicide. So he headed East and was captured by the Red Army. He was put in a slave labor camp for several years. One day a Captain in the Army who he had befriended came to him, and said next day the prisoners were being moved to Siberia, and that it would be a one-way trip. He advised by friend's Grandfather to make a run for it. And so he did. By that time the war was nearing its end, and he was captured by the allies, and found residence in Europe, before moving to Israel.
Perhaps Haim, if one has been victimized, has been raped, tortured, or otherwise mistreated, one can never fully trust the "other". I know of people who were tortured in the Pinochet regime. I also know people who had to leave Central America when the American-sponsored death squads depopulated the region by 15% in the 1980's. They speak very much like you Haim. The scars run very deep.
((So please read more and get better informed and talk to people that lived under the Russian before blaming any one else of treating the Russian as a nation incorrectly or wrongly))
I will try to do so Haim. Thanks.
Kind regards,
Glenn |
