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Politics : Liberalism: Do You Agree We've Had Enough of It? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (43260)	8/30/2008 8:54:33 PM
From: Carolyn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 224686

Where is the proof of this? He was registered as a Muslim before and converted to Christianity on the advice of his wife.

To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (43260)	8/30/2008 10:22:31 PM
From: lorne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 224686

....." Obama converted from being an agnostic to a Christian. He never was a Muslim.".... Yes he was/is..IMO

To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (43260)	8/30/2008 10:35:00 PM
From: puborectalis	Respond to of 224686

From: SeachRE 8/30/2008 10:06:32 PM Read Replies (1) of 29326 OF PALIN AND ALASKANS: Well, this Alaskan is sitting here in disbelief. This is a total gift to the Obama - Biden ticket. As the nation scrambles to figure out who Sarah Palin IS, the thinking people of Alaska are simply mystified. I’ll be posting about this a lot later in the day after I’m awake, (it’s early a.m. here in Alaska) but first impressions: This woman is going to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency? 2 years ago she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. For those of you out of state, this is as small, and backwoods as it sounds. A dark horse candidate for governor, she was elected on the ‘anybody but Frank Murkowski’ ticket. Our previous governor went down hard in his primary bid for reelection, because basically he was the worst governor, ever. People questioned whether Sarah Palin was actually qualified to be governor of a state that has 1/2 a million people in it. McCain obviously is looking for the Hillary vote since apparently he thinks women need no other criteria than a set of ovaries to mark their ballot, right? I mean women don’t actually make policy decisions, do they? He’s also looking for the Evangelical vote. Palin, a creationist, anti-gay, pro-lifer will appeal to this crowd. Her fondness for creationism in schools, and the recent birth of a Downs Syndrome child can’t hurt here. Did I say recent birth of a child? Why, yes. Our new Vice Presidential candidate has four children plus an infant son. She obviously feels caring for her newborn won’t get in the way of her Vice Presidential duties. And don’t worry fellas. There’s plenty for you. Sarah won second place in the Miss Alaska contest! Didn’t they have a card for that in Monopoly? And John McCain knows how important it is to have a trophy wife Veep on his arm. John McCain has just done something that Obama has not been able to do yet - prove to the world unequivocably that McCain doesn’t have the judgement to be President. He will never ever be able to hold his head up and say that Obama isn’t “ready to lead”. The pro-drilling crowd will be pleased too. Why she’s even sueing the Federal Government for daring to suggest that polar bears should be listed as ‘threatened’. Can’t have those damned bears interfering with the oil rigs. And then there’s that annoying little ethics investigation by the Alaska State Legislature… I think I’ll be chuckling all weekend over this. More to come later. There’s just so much fodder here. Where’s a blogger to start? (from Mudflats, Alaska) ...... More stuff on GOP winger thread. Not spamming... Other Message Board

To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (43260)	8/30/2008 10:39:24 PM
From: puborectalis	Respond to of 224686

Op-Ed Columnist McCain’s Baked Alaska By GAIL COLLINS DENVER It is conceivable that some people will think John McCain picked Sarah Palin to be his running mate because she is a woman. I know you find this shocking, but I swear I have heard it mentioned. McCain does not believe in pandering to identity politics. He was looking for someone who was well prepared to fight against international Islamic extremism, the transcendent issue of our time. And in the end he decided that in good conscience, he was not going to settle for anyone who had not been commander of a state national guard for at least a year and a half. He put down his foot! The obvious choice was Palin, the governor of Alaska, whose guard stands as our last best defense against possible attack by the resurgent Russian menace across the Bering Strait. Also a woman, but that’s totally beside the point. True, the only nonfamily members other than McCain that Palin really mentioned in her introductory speech were Democrats Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary Rodham Clinton. Whatever happened to Ronald Reagan? Isn’t there a rule that you have to mention Ronald Reagan? “It was rightly noted in Denver that Hillary made 18 million cracks in the highest, hardest glass ceiling in America,” Palin said. “It turns out the women of America aren’t finished yet, and we can shatter that glass ceiling once and for all.” O.K., the women thing might have been a little bit of a selling point. Not nearly so much as the national guard commandership, of course. But if the millions of Democratic women who are still ticked off at Obama for stepping in front of Hillary in the line want to look elsewhere ... John McCain has a low opinion of the vice presidency, which he’s frequently described as a job that involves attending funerals and checking on the health of the president. (Happy 72nd birthday, John!) There’s a lot we don’t know yet about Palin, and I am personally looking forward to deconstructing her role in the Matanuska Maid Dairy closing crisis. But at first glance, she doesn’t seem much less qualified than Tim Pawlenty, the governor of Minnesota who most people thought was the most likely pick. Unlike Joe Lieberman, Palin is a member of the same party as the presidential candidate. And unlike Mitt Romney, she has never gone on vacation with the family dog strapped to the roof of the car. However, I do feel kind of ticked off at the assumptions that the Republicans seem to be making about female voters. It’s a tad reminiscent of the Dan Quayle selection, when the first George Bush’s advisers decided they could close the gender gap with a cute running mate. The idea that women are going to race off to vote for any candidate with the same internal plumbing is both offensive and historically wrong. When the sexes have parted company in modern elections, it’s generally been because women are more likely to be Democrats, and more concerned about protecting the social safety net. “The gender gap traditionally has been determined by party preference, not by the gender of the candidate,” said Ruth Mandel of the Eagleton Institute of Politics. Over the last week, we have heard over and over and over that Tuesday was the anniversary of the day women got the right to vote. (They got it when a state representative in Tennessee, where the House was split on the ratification issue, changed his vote because his mother wrote him a letter telling him to shape up. That’s a story that I would love to get into, but, unfortunately, right now we have Sarah Palin to deal with.) After that big moment of enfranchisement, women went through a long period in the desert where they had the vote but not much else. Then came the great revolutions of the 1970s, when all the assumptions about the natural divisions between the sexes were challenged. During that era, women could be excited and moved by symbolic candidacies that promised a better, more inclusive future, like Shirley Chisholm’s presidential race and Geraldine Ferraro’s presence on the Democratic national ticket. This year, Hillary Clinton took things to a whole new level. She didn’t run for president as a symbol but as the best-prepared candidate in the Democratic pack. Whether you liked her or not, she convinced the nation that women could be qualified to both run the country and be commander in chief. That was an enormous breakthrough, and Palin’s nomination feels, in comparison, like a step back. If she’s only on the ticket to try to get disaffected Clinton supporters to cross over, it’s a bad choice. Joe Biden may already be practicing his drop-dead line for the vice-presidential debate: “I know Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is a friend of mine, and governor, you’re no Hillary Clinton.”

To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (43260)	8/30/2008 10:41:31 PM
From: puborectalis	Respond to of 224686

August 30, 2008 Obama: Let's hope lessons of Katrina were learned By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Filed at 10:24 p.m. ET BOARDMAN, Ohio (AP) -- Barack Obama expressed hope Saturday that the lessons learned from Hurricane Katrina three years ago would help to protect the Gulf Coast from Hurricane Gustav this time. His running mate, Joe Biden, urged people to pray that the levees in New Orleans hold. Obama and Biden visited a diner in this Youngstown suburb, an area that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton carried during her failed presidential bid. Trying to connect with those who are economically struggling, the Democratic candidates and their wives chatted with diners and told reporters that a properly orchestrated evacuation would be key to protecting the Gulf Coast. ''It wasn't last time, and hopefully we've learned from that tragedy,'' Obama told reporters as he left the diner, heading to a memorial service for the late Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, the first black woman to represent Ohio in Congress. She died Aug. 20 from a brain hemorrhage caused by a ruptured aneurysm. On the way to an evening rally in the Columbus area, Obama spokes to Federal Emergency Management Agency chief David Paulison, Louisiana Sen. Mary Landrieu and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin. He also spoke with Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal. Biden also spoke with Jindal and messaged Landrieu. While at the capital-area rally in Dublin, he joked about the marathon primary season: ''After 19 months of traversing through every state except Alaska,'' Obama began, referencing the home state of John McCain's vice presidential pick Sarah Palin and earning laughs. ''Which now that I think about it, we're going to have to go there now.'' Northeast Ohio, a Rust Belt region where the economy has struggled, supported Clinton's presidential bid back in March. Obama carried the Democratic stronghold of Cuyahoga County, with Cleveland, but lost 83 of 88 counties. Since then, Obama has been a frequent visitor in the area, trying to connect with the white, working-class voters who have eluded him thus far. Biden said the Gulf Coast appears better prepared for a major hurricane this time than it was for Katrina, which left New Orleans and surrounding areas submerged. He said it appeared officials had learned from Katrina, and he praised moves to make major highways one-way routes out of the storm-targeted areas. ''It looks like they're incredibly well prepared, much better than they had before,'' Biden said. ''Just pray to God that those levees hold.'' The Bush administration's handling of Hurricane Katrina in 2005 has been lambasted by both parties' presidential candidates. Republican John McCain has called the response shameful, and Obama regularly blasts President Bush. Gustav gathered strength as it barreled toward Cuba on Saturday, on track to hit the U.S. Gulf Coast. The storm already has killed 78 people in the Caribbean.

To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (43260)	8/30/2008 10:44:12 PM
From: puborectalis	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 224686

opinion Palin an odd choice for VP Alaska guv's inexperience is glaring — and a probe into the firing of her public safety chief is due just before Election Day. The Denver Post Article Last Updated: 08/29/2008 09:51:28 PM MDT "I served with Hillary Clinton. I know Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is a friend of mine. You, Sarah Palin, are no Hillary Clinton." Sorry to steal Joe Biden's thunder, but we didn't want to wait for the vice presidential candidates' debate to say the obvious. Yes, John McCain, who argues with a straight face that Barack Obama's 12 years in the Illinois legislature and U.S. Senate aren't enough to qualify him to run for president, has picked a running mate who just two years ago was serving as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, population 5,470. In short, the presumptive Republican nominee, an Old Soldier in all senses of that term, drafted the political equivalent of the Unknown Soldier as his co-pilot. McCain's pick of Palin jettisons his attack that Obama isn't ready to lead and looks more like a desperate "Hail Mary" campaign tactic aimed at female voters. In general, we like governors on the ticket. Many state chief executives have excelled on the national stage, as Presidents Clinton, Reagan and both Roosevelts demonstrate. They have executive experience in running a company (the state) and meeting a budget. But Palin, in office less than two years, is still a neophyte in her own statehouse, let alone in the national arena. Worse, the Alaska Legislature voted last month to investigate allegations that Palin dismissed the state's public safety commissioner after that official resisted pressure to fire a state trooper involved in a contentious divorce from Palin's sister. The legislature has hired a former district attorney to investigate the troubling allegations and report by Oct. 31 — just before the Nov. 4 general election. Talk about an October surprise. Has McCain harnessed himself to a political time bomb? It's true that in some areas, Palin has the libertarian credentials that might appeal in the West, which is more than we could say for Biden. She is strongly pro-gun. She opposes gay marriage but also vetoed a bill that would have barred the state from granting benefits to the partners of gay state employees — thus allowing the benefits to be paid. However, Palin is a fervent opponent of abortion, even in cases of rape or incest. She also supports teaching the biblical theory of creationism alongside evolution in public schools. We were far from thrilled by Barack Obama's choice of Biden as his running mate, and questioned his judgment. We're scratching our heads over this one, too. At least Biden, the veteran foreign policy specialist, is qualified to be president if something should happen to Obama. Palin is not qualified to run this republic if something happens to McCain, a 72-year-old cancer survivor. Her selection was a not-so- thinly-veiled attempt to desperately court those still- rankled Hillary Clinton voters. But if McCain intended his running mate to be a bridge to supporters of the superbly qualified New York senator, Palin's lack of credentials and her hard-line anti-abortion stance precludes that. It won't be the first time that Alaska has produced a bridge to nowhere.

To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (43260)	8/30/2008 11:27:25 PM
From: MJ	Respond to of 224686

He converted or rather lets say joined in Chicago just before he was going to run for Senate for Illinois. It was suggested by a Chicago friend, as Obama himself wrote, that he should join a church if he was going to be working with people in Southside This is known as political expediency. It was a resume item then and now is a negative resume item.

To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (43260)	8/31/2008 3:47:04 PM
From: puborectalis	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 224686

No Experience Necessary How Sarah Palin made the GOP change its mind about presidential qualifications. By Michael Kinsley Posted Sunday, Aug. 31, 2008, at 10:36 AM ET John McCain and Sarah Palin In a famous example of ideological flexibility, the American Communist Party changed its mind completely about Adolf Hitler in 1939, when he signed a deal with Stalin. Previously, they hadn't cared for him much. Suddenly, he looked pretty good. Then two years later, when Hitler ratted on the deal and invaded the Soviet Union, the Communists changed their minds again. Both times, it took only days. But now, thanks to the Internet, the same kind of conversion can take place in hours or even minutes. And although it's hard to find many Communists around these days, we happen to have just the party for the job. It seems like just yesterday that the Republican Party was complaining about Barack Obama's lack of foreign-policy "experience." As a matter of fact, as I write (on Friday, Aug. 29) it actually was just yesterday. Even now, the Republican National Committee's main anti-Obama website has the witty address www.notready08.com. The contrast in experience, especially foreign-policy experience, between McCain and Obama was supposed to be the central focus of McCain's campaign. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But that's so five minutes ago, before Sarah Palin. Already, conservative pundits are coming up with creative explanations for McCain's choice of a vice presidential running mate with essentially no foreign policy experience. First prize so far goes to Michael Barone, who notes on the U.S. News & World Report blog that, "Alaska is the only state with a border with Russia. And it is the only state with territory, in the Aleutian Islands, occupied by the enemy in World War II." I think we need to know what Sarah Palin has done, in her year and change as governor of Alaska, to protect the freedom of the Aleutian Islands, before deciding how many foreign policy experience credits she deserves on their account. The official response to the question of experience emerged within hours and is only slightly more plausible: She may not have foreign policy experience, but -unlike Obama, Joe Biden or even John McCain-she has had executive experience. Why, before her stint as governor of Alaska, population 670,000, she was mayor of a town of 9,000. Remember when the Republicans mocked Bill Clinton for being governor of a "small state"? That would be Arkansas, population 2.8 million. As it happens, 670,000 is the population of metropolitan Little Rock. The whole "experience" debate is silly. Under our system of government, there is only one job that gives you both executive and foreign policy experience, and that's the one McCain and Obama are running for. Nevertheless, it's a hardy perennial: If your opponent is a governor, you accuse him of lacking foreign policy experience. If he or she is a member of Congress, you say this person has never run anything. And if, by any chance, your opponent has done both, you say that he or she is a "professional politician." When Republicans aren't complaining about someone's lack of experience, they are calling for term limits. That's why the important point about Palin's lack of experience isn't about Palin. It's about McCain. And the question is not how his choice of Palin might complicate his ability to use the "experience" issue, or whether he will have to drop experience as an issue. It's not even about the proper role of experience as an issue. In fact, it's not about experience at all. It's about honesty. The question should be whether McCain—and all the other Republicans who have been going on for months about Obama's dangerous lack of foreign policy experience—ever meant a word of it. And the answer is apparently not. Many conservative pundits woke up this very morning fully prepared to harp on Obama's alleged lack of experience for months more. Now they face the choice of either executing a Communist-style U-turn ("Experience? Feh! Who needs it?") or trying to keep a straight face while touting the importance of having been mayor of a town of 9,000 if you later find yourself president of a nation of 300 million. We all know that modern political campaigns choose their issues from the cafeteria line, after market-testing them, and then having them professionally framed. Rarely, though, are we offered such a clear and unarguable example. How could anyone truly believe that Barack Obama's background and job history are inadequate experience for a president, and simultaneously believe that Sarah Palin's background and job history are perfectly adequate? It's possible to believe one or the other. But both? Simply not possible. John McCain has been—what's the word?—lying. And so have all the pundits who rushed to defend McCain's choice. This is especially damning to McCain because his case for himself (besides not being Barack Obama, a standard under which many of us might qualify) has rested on his honor and integrity. The North Vietnamese couldn't break him, and neither could the Brahmins of his own party in the Senate. He was a maverick who always told it straight. So much for that.