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Politics : President Barack Obama -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: nigel bates who wrote (31981)	9/11/2008 5:59:38 PM
From: zeta1961	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 149317

Until now, anti-Americanism has been exaggerated and much misunderstood: outside a leftist hardcore, it has mostly been anti-Bushism, opposition to this specific administration. But if McCain wins in November, that might well change. Suddenly Europeans and others will conclude that their dispute is with not only one ruling clique, but Americans themselves. For it will have been the American people, not the politicians, who will have passed up a once-in-a-generation chance for a fresh start - a fresh start the world is yearning for. And.................. Of course I know that even to mention Obama's support around the world is to hurt him. Incredibly, that large Berlin crowd damaged Obama at home, branding him the "candidate of Europe" and making him seem less of a patriotic American. But what does that say about today's America, that the world's esteem is now unwanted? If Americans reject Obama, they will be sending the clearest possible message to the rest of us - and, make no mistake, we shall hear it. guardian.co.uk

To: nigel bates who wrote (31981)	9/11/2008 6:05:59 PM
From: koan	Respond to of 149317

I've never believed that Americans are impervious to irony, but you're challenging that. Pultizer prize-lol.

To: nigel bates who wrote (31981)	9/11/2008 6:40:18 PM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 149317

It doesn't contradict what I said. Its not like we're swaggering around invading countries for no reason. The intervention in the Balkans was at the request of most European countries. The attacks on Khartoum and Afghanistan were in response to terror attacks on Americans. The Afghan conflict ongoing now has the support of our NATO allies who have committed troops to the conflict. The original Gulf War over Kuwait was supported by almost every nation on earth. And the sanctions we spent 12 years and a massive amount of real and moral capital trying to enforce were enacted by the UNSC. The Iraq war begun in 2003 doesn't have as much international support but even it has some. At any rate, the UN sanctions regime had gotten us into a no-win situation where we were damned if we do, damned if we don't. The root of the problem is we allowed Saddam to survive the Gulf war. We made a mistake there - allowing the conflict with Saddam to never end.

To: nigel bates who wrote (31981)	9/11/2008 7:05:17 PM
From: tejek	Respond to of 149317

And all that justifies your argument that "Foreigners excessive interest in our politics is inappropriate" ? I've never believed that Americans are impervious to irony, but you're challenging that. Things have changed greatly in this country over the past ten years. My city was accused of not flying enough flags. One is unpatriotic if you disagree with the president. Not only are some Americans impervious to irony but they also are impervious to reality and the truth. We've lost all sense of objectivity and now its the US against the world. Very sad.