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Politics : Politics of Energy -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: RetiredNow who wrote (2441)	9/18/2008 11:52:06 AM
From: TimF	Respond to of 86356

OT Tim, go try selling that bridge to someone else. I put social security funds into the system and expect to get that back as a retirement distribution when I reach the required age. By any reasonable person's definition, that is a debt. Yes, the gov't can legislate that debt away, but in my book it's a debt. By no reasonable definition is it a debt, and also legally it isn't a debt. And it has never been treated as a debt, the pay out formula has changed before, it will very likely be changed again. If its a debt, the debtor can't just arbitrarily change the amount the owe you. Also it wouldn't end when you die, it would be an asset for your heirs, and their heirs if it wasn't paid off yet. All sorts of people paid various taxes to the federal government and expected and still expect to get money back from it through various large, long standing government programs. The may be right. It may be politically impossible to cancel the program. You might even argue in some cases that it would be unjust to cancel the program. But canceling the program would not be a default. There is no debt, just promises made by politicians. More importantly its totally besides the point. I wasn't saying it wasn't a debt. I was saying the amount owed to the federal government to itself isn't a debt. Assuming for the sake of argument that every single penny the current social formula says will be paid out to you is a debt that doesn't mean that the government's internal balances of different areas of the government represents a debt of the federal government. Your conflating two separate issues. Does the government have a debt to you, And, does the "trust fund" represent a debt, are two entirely separate questions. If the government has a debt to you it could pay it back in any way. It could raise social security taxes, while canceling the "trust fund", it could eliminated social security taxes, and the "trust fund", and just pay you with income tax revenue. The later is in effect the same as what will really happen. If your young enough (and if your not, this still applies to other people), you will be paid back at least in part, with revenue from other taxes besides the SS tax. It makes little difference to the recipient whether the money he receives goes from the IRS, to the treasury department, which uses it to "pay back" a "debt" to the SSA, which then takes that "repayment", and gives the money to you, or whether the IRS just hands the money to the SSA, and the SSA pays you with that tax money.