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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: ManyMoose who wrote (85213)	9/17/2008 10:38:00 PM
From: ChinuSFO	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543748

As you also know, some of the detainees who were released have already attacked us again. This statement contradicts with your previous statement. If these folks were treated that well, then why would they bear a grudge against the US. Have you seen prostitutes change their lives because of police crackdown? So goes terrorism.

To: ManyMoose who wrote (85213)	9/18/2008 2:53:04 AM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543748

Many Moose, you wrote, in three separate posts, the following about the long term prisoners at our Gitmo facility: We treat them like kings, relative to the way they treat our POWs.... The detainees at Gitmo, as you know, were given good, culturally correct food, given time to pray, exercise, study the Koran, and every amenity imaginable. They are due no apologies..... They attack us again because they hate us, and we made the mistake of not killing them instead of giving them three Islamic squares and a prayer rug. Are you really so incapable of empathy that you cannot fathom the misery they suffer when we deprive them of their freedoms of association, travel, speech, right to worship in the company of their fellow believers and when we remove them from their families, friends and communities? And all that without affording them the basic rights to hear the charges against them, face their accusers, test the evidence and, at the least, put a certainty to the duration of their imprisonment. Wait, I forgot, you'd like to spare them all of that misery, i.e.; "we made the mistake of not killing them instead of giving them three Islamic squares and a prayer rug." Yeah, the world would be a better place if a proud moose hunter like you could add your voice to the voices of the Palin, Cheney, Bush and Bolton's of the world. Many Moose, my ass. Ed

To: ManyMoose who wrote (85213)	9/18/2008 3:33:55 AM
From: Cogito	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543748

>>Don't try to twist my responses around like that, Allen. I did NOT say that innocent Iraqis who got killed during our attacks mean nothing. It's very regrettable, and we did our utmost to avoid innocents UNLIKE ANY OTHER NATION IN HISTORY HAS DONE BEFORE. But their fate was the result of their own constitution and the abuse of power of their leaders, and is NOT OUR PROBLEM.<< MM - I wasn't trying to twist your response, MM. It was so brief, and seemed so heartless, that I couldn't see any interpretation other than the obvious one. This response, though including a bit more rationalization, is really not much better. Blaming the deaths of innocent Iraqis on their own constitution pretty much takes us right off the hook, though, doesn't it? Their constitution and their crazy leader made us do it. I'm sorry, but I don't see the logic in your position. I also don't see accountability or empathy. And no, I don't know that the detainees at Gitmo haven't been abused. In fact, there is ample evidence that they have been. Besides, Gitmo isn't the only place we have detainees, and it's well established that many of our prisoners have been tortured in various ways. Or have you already forgotten Abu Ghraib? We'd better stop talking about this. You may have the last word if you want it. - Allen