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To: carranza2 who wrote (272151)10/3/2008 7:55:41 AM
From: greenspirit4 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793955
 
Biden's substance was paper thin. Most of it was factually incorrect. See my last post regarding the Constitution and role of the VP.

He was dead wrong! The MSM is letting him get away with it. Imagine what the media's reaction would be if Palin made that mistake.

Biden has been in the Senate for 35 years and does not know the Constitution, or role it outlines for the V.P.

Huge gaffe!

Message 25021415



To: carranza2 who wrote (272151)10/3/2008 7:59:18 AM
From: greenspirit4 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793955
 
The fact checking is going 3-1 against Biden. The only real fact checking mistake Palin made was in the pre-surge troop numbers.



To: carranza2 who wrote (272151)10/3/2008 8:31:18 AM
From: John Carragher3 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793955
 
but if biden lied or made several errors how can you support him on substance?

time in job and knowledge is not a qualification. Rather what has Biden done with thirty years in the senate to stand out. nothing. he couldn't get his own democrat support higher than around 3% when running for president now he is ready to step into the job?

Biden wins the medal on procrastination.

substance,, lied about what place he graduated from law school,, used other writings as his his own.. He looks into the camera and states items, like i support clean coal and then off camera he tells local just the opposite.



To: carranza2 who wrote (272151)10/3/2008 11:28:16 AM
From: MrLucky8 Recommendations  Respond to of 793955
 
Still, Biden came across as a good, honorable man which by all accounts he mostly is.

Was the Biden treatment of Bork and Thomas honorable? Hardly. (Playing to the liberals and trial lawyers)

Did you hear him say last night that Cheney is the worst vice president this country has ever had? (Playing to Soros and the Pelosi believers)

His prior racist comments about owners of 7-11s and donut shops. (Displaying his true feelings or he is dumber than dirt)

Honorable? Not for me.

While some of his answers were more detailed than Palin's, they often were more inaccurate as well.

My view is that Biden-Obama screwed the pooch last night by not putting their message out in very clear terms. Instead, he mostly whined about Bush.

Palin-McCain failed again to lay the bulk of the political blame for the bail out issue on the democrats - Dodd, Conrad, Franks, Raines, L. Johnson etc. A huge mistake.

Palin-McCain also screwed up in not addressing the endless pork attached to the senate version of the bail out. I am waiting for McCain to explain away his concurrence with the 150B worth of earmarks on the bill.

Palin will go over big with most women. Many black females or hard-core feminists will not be swayed. She will go over big with guys who have a wife like her, or wished they did.




To: carranza2 who wrote (272151)10/3/2008 12:17:59 PM
From: Ruffian1 Recommendation  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793955
 
The Palin Rebound

By DAVID BROOKS
Published: October 2, 2008

There are some moments when members of a political movement come together as one, sharing the same thoughts, feeling the same emotions, breathing the same shallow breaths. One of those occasions occurred Thursday night when Republicans around the country crouched nervously behind their sofas, glimpsed out tentatively at their flat screens and gripped their beverages tightly as Sarah Palin walked onto the debate stage at Washington University in St. Louis.
Skip to next paragraph

David Brooks

There she was, resplendent in black, striding out like a power-walker, and greeting Joe Biden like an assertive salesman, first-naming him right off the bat.

Just as the midcentury psychologist Abraham Maslow predicted, Republicans watching the debate had a hierarchy of needs. First, they had a need for survival. Was this woman capable of completing an extemporaneous paragraph — a collection of sentences with subjects, verbs, objects and, if possible, an actual meaning?

By the end of her opening answers, it was clear she would meet the test. She spoke with that calm, measured poise that marked her convention speech, not the panicked meanderings of her subsequent interviews.

When nervous, Palin has a tendency to over-enunciate her words like a graduate of the George W. Bush School of Oratory, but Thursday night she spoke like a normal person. It took her about 15 seconds to define her persona — the straight-talking mom from regular America — and it was immediately clear that the night would be filled with tales of soccer moms, hockey moms, Joe Sixpacks, main-streeters, “you betchas” and “darn rights.” Somewhere in heaven Norman Rockwell is smiling.

With a bemused smile and a never-ending flow of words, she laid out her place on the ticket — as the fearless neighbor for the heartland bemused by the idiocies of Washington. Her perpetual smile served as foil to Biden’s senatorial seriousness.

Where was this woman during her interview with Katie Couric?

Their primal need for political survival having been satisfied, her supporters then looked for her to shift the momentum. And here we come to the interesting cultural question posed by her performance. The presidency and the vice presidency once was the preserve of white men in suits. As the historian Ellen Fitzpatrick pointed out on PBS Thursday night, if, in 1984, Geraldine Ferraro had spoken in the relentlessly folksy tones that Palin used, she would have been hounded out of politics as fundamentally unserious.

But that was before casual Fridays, boxers or briefs and T-shirt-clad Silicon Valley executives. Today, Palin can hit those colloquial notes again and again, and it is not automatically disqualifying.

On Thursday night, Palin took her inexperience and made a mansion out of it. From her first “Nice to meet you. May I call you Joe?” she made it abundantly, unstoppably and relentlessly clear that she was not of Washington, did not admire Washington and knew little about Washington. She ran not only against Washington, but the whole East Coast, just to be safe.

To many ears, her accent, her colloquialisms and her constant invocations of the accoutrements of everyday life will seem cloying. But in the casual parts of the country, I suspect, it went down fine. In any case, that’s who Palin is.

On matters of substance, her main accomplishment was to completely sever ties to the Bush administration. She treated Bush as some historical curiosity from the distant past. Beyond that, Palin broke no new ground, though she toured the landscape of McCain policy positions with surprising fluency. Like the last debate, this one was surprisingly wonky — a lifetime subscription to Congressional Quarterly. Palin could not match Biden when it came to policy detail, but she never obviously floundered.

She was surprisingly forceful on the subject of Iran (pronouncing Ahmadinejad better than her running mate) though she stepped over the line in claiming that Democrats sought to raise the “the white flag of surrender.”

Biden, for his part, was smart, fluid and relentless. He did not hit the change theme hard enough. He did not praise Barack Obama enough. But he was engaging, serious and provided a moving and revealing moment toward the end, when he invoked the tragedy that befell his own family and revealed the passion that has driven him all his life.

Still, this debate was about Sarah Palin. She held up her end of an energetic debate that gave voters a direct look at two competing philosophies. She established debating parity with Joe Biden. And in a country that is furious with Washington, she presented herself as a radical alternative.

By the end of the debate, most Republicans were not crouching behind the couch, but standing on it. The race has not been transformed, but few could have expected as vibrant and tactically clever a performance as the one Sarah Palin turned in Thursday night.



To: carranza2 who wrote (272151)10/3/2008 12:46:20 PM
From: SirWalterRalegh7 Recommendations  Respond to of 793955
 
Still, Biden came across as a good, honorable man which by all accounts he mostly is.

As a lawyer, Biden, is part of another problem. There are far too many lawyers in Congress.

There are far too many lawyers in American society always stirring up disputes and frivolous class action lawsuits, personal injury suits......

I find them creepy and the vast majority are Democrats.



To: carranza2 who wrote (272151)10/3/2008 1:00:25 PM
From: Nadine Carroll4 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793955
 
Still, Biden came across as a good, honorable man which by all accounts he mostly is.

Except when he decides to destroy people on the judiciary committee. Just business, you understand.

Many of Biden's facts were not factual either. The Dems are stuck in a view of Iraq and Afghanistan that is almost totally counter-factual. They did and do advocate defeat in Iraq, as if it were a good idea, for the sake of a supposed something (can one say "victory"?) in Afghanistan without acknowledging the problems in Afghanistan are caused by Al Qaeda in Pakistan, which is not something they are prepared to tackle so they pretend it doesn't exist.

On substance, I thought Biden killed her. On form and on emotional arguments, Palin did very well. Low expectations helped her a lot. A draw, probably, with Biden probably a bit better, IMO.

Emotion tends to rule the day. McCain won the first debate on substance, but Obama was declared the winner because he didn't stutter too much or look like he didn't belong on the stage. Similar rules for Palin, except of course the MSM will try to rewrite them. The MSM may have done her an unintended favor by trying to openly to tear her down. She bettered expectations just by not bursting into tears.



To: carranza2 who wrote (272151)10/3/2008 2:07:09 PM
From: ManyMoose17 Recommendations  Respond to of 793955
 
probably write-in Ron Paul

Why don't you just vote for Obama? A vote for Ron Paul is just a dishonest way of doing that.