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Strategies & Market Trends : 2026 TeoTwawKi ... 2032 Darkest Interregnum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TobagoJack who wrote (41353)	10/14/2008 11:33:46 PM
From: pogohere	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 217764

"the proof is everywhere you choose to turn away from" I haven't turned away from anything. We are discussing monetary history and the version you choose to honor. And that version fails to distinguish between the Anglo-Dutch money-as-debt model and the modern alternative, adopted reluctantly but quite successfully in recent memory by Hjalmar Schacht to rescue Weimar Germany and bring Germany out of the depression of the 1930s. The money he created was not debt--it represented actual labor and the production of infrastructure and industrial products. The German central bank only issued "money" that represented the aggregate tangible real productivity of German labor and capital. re Weimar: Message 24568048 the "classical theory" he refers to in the following linked excerpt (some repetition, my apologies) was precisely the A-D money-as-debt model that led to the problems to begin with: Message 24568048 There is experience in pre revolutionary times in the US: Benjamin Franklin’s Solution Nationalization has traditionally had a bad name in the United States, but it could be an attractive alternative for the American people and our representative government as well. Turning bankrupt Wall Street banks into public institutions might allow the government to get out of the debt cyclone by undoing what got us into it. Instead of robbing Peter to pay Paul, flapping around in a sea of debt trying to stay afloat by creating more debt, the government could address the problem at its source: it could restore the right to create money to Congress, the public body to which that solemn duty was delegated under the Constitution. The most brilliant banking model in our national history was established in the first half of the eighteenth century, in Benjamin Franklin’s home province of Pennsylvania. The local government created its own bank, which issued money and lent it to farmers at a modest interest. The provincial government created enough extra money to cover the interest not created in the original loans, spending it into the economy on public services. The bank was publicly owned, and the bankers it employed were public servants. The interest generated on its loans was sufficient to fund the government without taxes; and because the newly issued money came back to the government, the result was not inflationary.iii The Pennsylvania banking scheme was a sensible and highly workable system that was a product of American ingenuity but that never got a chance to prove itself after the colonies became a nation. It was an ironic twist, since according to Benjamin Franklin and others, restoring the power to create their own currency was a chief reason the colonists fought for independence. The bankers’ money-creating machine has had two centuries of empirical testing and has proven to be a failure. It is time the sovereign right to create money is taken from a private banking elite and restored to the American people to whom it properly belongs. opednews.com Indeed, you will not prove anything except that the A-D model is garbage no matter who promotes it. I agree with you about that, am not promoting it and have supplied the sources, which, yes, take some work to read and ponder, that amply demonstrate the problems with it and how to tackle them. Why bother with this? Because we are now being challenged to rescue the monetary system from yet another failed A-D disaster. So far, those educated in it, and who misunderstand money and the history of it, are trying to fix the problem with the same approach that created it. Schacht was educated in the same tradition but abandoned it, and reluctantly but intelligently, because it would not provide Germany with the solutions it needed. He was fired by Hitler in 1939 and the allies tried him for war crimes 3 times after the war. He was acquitted each time. I have taken the time to study this* because it is as far from an academic issue as it can be. Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Why should I put my shoulder to the wheel in a manner that will burden my grandchildren and your Coconut with the errors of the past? Here in the US I am facing further loss of civil liberties and the destruction of my wealth. So how am I positioned? You will not be surprised to hear that I am heavily into gold and silver, physical and in the form of equities in precious and base metals companies all over the world, as well as energy, in the form of equities in junior companies. Also, I own DAY-UN.TO, a Canadian royalty trust in excellent shape. I also like the juniors in the North Sea. While I don't believe gold or silver are money per se, they have a season and I believe that season is now ("when all else fails, the world's stock of gold IS the money supply"). They will be treated as if they are currencies for a spell and will again then be relegated to dustbin of history. If we don't educate ourselves about the fundamental flaws of the A-D model, gold will have future seasons as a currency. Quelle dommage. BTW, I was holding Icelandic paper several years ago and am quite relieved to have nothing to do with it now. Your script doesn't address the fundamental issue of what money is and what it has been in history. My script does. The irony, if that is what it is, is that we are in substantial agreement as to how to respond. I think I am probably a better history student than you in these matters, but I admit, I am an amateur compared to you when it comes to investing. My best to you. * When you suggested it would be useful to read "The Three Kingdoms" to catch a glimpse of China, I did. Thanks.

To: TobagoJack who wrote (41353)	10/17/2008 7:50:00 AM
From: elmatador	3 Recommendations Respond to of 217764

Following the problems in the sub-prime lending market in America and the run on Northern Rock in the UK, uncertainty has now hit Japan. In the last 7 days Origami Bank has folded, Sumo Bank has gone belly up and Bonsai Bank announced plans to cut some of its branches. Yesterday, it was announced that Karaoke Bank is up for sale and will likely go for a song, while today shares in Kamikaze Bank were suspended after they nose-dived. While Samurai Bank are soldiering on following sharp cutbacks, Ninja Bank are reported to have taken a hit, but they remain in the black. Furthermore, 500 staff at Karate Bank got the chop and analysts report that there is something fishy going on at Sushi Bank, where it is feared that staff may get a raw deal. What’s the capital of Iceland? About Three Pounds Fifty. I had a cheque returned. “Insufficient Funds”. Mine or the bank’s? Quote of the day (from a trader): “This is worse than a divorce. I’ve lost half my net worth and I still have a wife.” What’s the difference between an investment banker and a large pizza? A large pizza can feed a family of four. What’s the difference between Investment Bankers and London Pigeons? The Pigeons are still capable of making deposits on new BMW’s.