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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: J.B.C. who wrote (90061)	10/14/2008 9:30:46 PM
From: Cogito	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541957

>>As far as the media ignoring Wright goes, I guess you must have missed all the coverage about him this past winter and spring. No I didn't miss it, they gave him a pass and didn't investigate. Obama said that he wasn't there for "those" sermons for those 20 years he attended church.<< JBC - You must have skimmed the coverage. I recall Obama saying that he wasn't present for one specific sermon, and I recall reading news stories confirming that he wasn't present, by reporters who dug into his schedule and found that he was in another state, just as he said, on the date the sermon in question was delivered. His association with Ayers doesn't really go farther than him being "just a guy in the neighborhood." The kinds of things Obama has done with him are exactly the kinds of things one would do with a guy in the neighborhood. His association with ACORN isn't problematic because ACORN itself is not problematic. There have been a few instances where ACORN has found that some of its temporary employees had turned in bogus registrations. ACORN's own people discovered this and alerted the proper authorities, to ensure that none of the improper registrations remained in the voter rolls. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that any attempt has ever been made to vote using one of the bogus registrations, nor even that there was ever the intention of having someone vote based on one of them. Fox News refers to these bogus registrations as "voter fraud," but they aren't. To have voter fraud, you would have had to have a vote cast by a fraudulent registrant. I know of no evidence that such a vote was ever cast. Do you have any such evidence? Does Fox? If so, they have never presented it, to my knowledge. >>ll Palen has been saying is that Obama has ties with a terrorist....ahhh that happens to be true. << No, that's not all Palin has been saying. She has said that Obama "doesn't see America the way we see it." She's said that he sees the nation as being so imperfect that he associates with people who would attack the Pentagon. What she is doing when she says that is making a claim about what Obama thinks as if it's a claim of fact. How does Palin claim to know what Obama thinks? By stretching logical inference past the point of credibility. She can't find a single thing he has ever said in all his years in public life that supports what she says he thinks, so she makes her claim based on, well, an association. And she stretches that association to imply that Obama himself would like to bomb the Pentagon. That's hateful, and meant to stir up an emotional response. Palin's stirs up hatred when she says those things. Your response is that so did Wright. Well, Wright isn't Obama, and isn't running for office. So do all of the people who served on the Annenberg Challenge board also view America differently from Palin and whoever else she's including in her "we?" We know that there were many influential Republicans on that board, too. We know that Ayers was named Chicago's "Citizen of the Year" in 1997. Do the people who honored his work on education by naming him that all want to attack the Pentagon? No, I'm not troubled by Barack's associations. But I am troubled by Sarah Palin and John McCain, and the outright lies both have repeatedly told the American public about their own records and about Obama's record. I'm troubled, too, by their association with Tucker Eskew and Rick Davis, just to name two. Davis' firm was receiving money from FRE until this past August. As the NY Times reported, "Mr. Davis took a leave from Davis Manafort for the presidential campaign, but as an equity holder continues to benefit from its income. No one at Davis Manafort other than Mr. Davis was involved in efforts on Freddie Mac’s behalf, the people familiar with the arrangement said." Yes, Obama received campaign donations from them. But he's not even on the Senate Banking Committee. What influence is he supposed to have wielded on their behalf? There is not even a claim that he ever did anything improper, or that he lobbied on their behalf, as Davis did, so the whole point is moot. - Allen

To: J.B.C. who wrote (90061)	10/14/2008 10:16:42 PM
From: Ron	Respond to of 541957

McCain's campaign is loaded with lobbyists, many of whom have represented countries and dictators who opposed the U.S. The media have given McCain a pass on this. As for Obama's preacher. Who hasn't heard a minister say things they disagreed with? At least Obama was an active church member. McCain doesn't even belong to a church now. Look it up. He claims to attend a Baptist congregation in Phoenix but never joined. William Ayers? I hope McCain brings Ayers up in the next debate. McCain has many more problematic associations than Obama. I'll bet McCain does not bring it up. Because he knows better. As for ACORN, that is a red herring, largely pushed by Limbaugh and Fox News. ACORN has done a tremendous amount of good for the country. A few over-zealous voter registration staffers are minor compared to the thousands of Republican poll workers who have done their damndest to discourage and scare elderly and low income people away from polling places. I have seen them in action and they are scum. Media has given the Republicans a huge pass on that too, probably because you have to actually do serious reporting to catch them in the act. It's much easier to read handouts from the Republican National Committee.