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Politics : The abortion issue: pro-choice vs. anti-abortion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LLCF who wrote (108)	10/15/2008 11:45:46 AM
From: TimF	1 Recommendation Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 286

Do you think that if you where a woman you would have a right to determine the issue for other women? I doubt your answer is yes, if it is, can you please explain why. If your answer is no, then you confirm my point that the whole point about being a man is at least irrelevant, and arguably ridiculous. It DOES, because the 'relativity' is between a woman and her baby... actually a MAN has VERY LITTLE to do with that relationship by comparison. The father, has a lot more to do with it than some random woman. Some random unconnected man has as much to do with it as some similarly unconnected woman. Of course a fetus IS (partly) "a piece of" the mother. Of course it isn't. <then it wouldn't be any more your business if you where a woman unless it was your abortion.> EXACTLY!! In other words it's a deeply personal issue each woman needs to deal with on her own. That's the original point. Then your back to the whole "I don't have a say because I'm a man" theme as being entirely irrelevant. The status of the fetus is a general political, moral, philosophical, and legal issue about which men legitimately have as much to say as women. They are not, and should not be preemptively excluded from the debate on any level. The debate, for just about everyone who has a very developed opinion , comes down to the status of the fetus, whether it is considered a human with human rights or not. Women generally, or the mother specifically don't have any special status in determining that issue. If you assume (as you apparently do) that the fetus doesn't have, and properly shouldn't be considered to have human rights, than the decision would be properly up to the pregnant woman, not because she has some special status in the larger debate, but because, at least in your mind, the issue is fully decided and there is no other human with anywhere near the level of direct involvement in the situation that she does. In your opinion it just about her, that she is the only human directly effected by the procedure. If on the other hand you see another human involved, namely the fetus, then their are two people directly effected, both of their rights need to be considered and respected, and right to live is more important than the right not to be pregnant (at least when the pregnancy isn't very likely to kill the woman, so that two people have right to life considerations). ----- I say "just about everyone" but it isn't just "everyone". A few on the pro-choice side argue that even if the fetus has human rights that its basically assaulting the woman, attaching itself to her and taking from her without her consent. IMO this argument is utterly unreasonable when the pregnancy was not the result of rape because the woman caused herself to be in a situation where she might get pregnant. But arguably there is something behind it when she is pregnant as a result of rape.