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To: MulhollandDrive who wrote (168498)	12/2/2008 10:29:02 PM
From: bentway	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 306849

Pensions and retirement health care costs shouldn't be hung on today's workers, who's average pay is $28/hr. The retired workers already put in the added value to cover those costs when they were working. From WW II until fairly recently, Detroit was making money hand over fist for the most part, year after year, selling dumb Americans the same clown cars with new sheet metal every year. The fact that the management didn't structure the pay out in a sustainable way isn't the fault of the workers, then or now.

To: MulhollandDrive who wrote (168498)	12/3/2008 7:42:41 AM
From: butschi2	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 306849

His point is that in the $70 figure are included costs for past RETIRED workers and thats simply nuts to include this figure here. GM gave away the money years or decades ago and only didnt account correctly for it. This are not present labor costs this are legacy costs as "normal" debt to bondholders or other IOUs and you shouldnt include past costs or debt payments in labour costs to fuge your numbers. GM had the benefit of lowering their actual pay decades ago by promising future benefits. The benefits should have been accounted for years / decageds ago, but this was never done correctly. The promised benefits of decades ago may have ballooned in value due to increasing lifespans and healtcare costs. This past benefits doesnt have to do anything with payments or labor costs of present day workers.