To: LindyBill who wrote (283159 ) 12/5/2008 7:21:34 PM From: Maurice Winn 1 Recommendation Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 793917 Lindy, you have obviously been taken in by a lifetime of propaganda. It happens to everyone to a greater or lesser extent: <Property rights didn't exist until whitey came along. > Have you heard of "eminent domain"? Have you heard of "conscription", "the draft"? Have you heard of the IRD? Are you aware you are a state serf? Property rights everywhere are pretty thin on the ground and subject to kleptocratic confiscation at a moment's notice. Have you heard of "The Bailout" currently in operation with car companies flying in corporate jets to Washington to collect money stolen from Qualcomm, with the politicians taking their cut before passing it on? <you have fallen for Rousseau's "Nobel Savage" line. > Not at all Lindy. Nor do I fall for the "Noble American" propaganda of current times. Nobel made dynamite, owned Bofors and other fun things: en.wikipedia.org Then there was the Peace Prize business. You have confused the Nobel Peace Prize with the Noble Savages, who from what I know were anything but noble and don't win Peace Prizes, but maybe it was just a typo. I'm well aware of practises by savages around the world before the wonderful British Empire brought the Enlightenment to benighted people in all corners who were pleased to become part of the Empire [such as Maoris in New Zealand who could see the advantages]. In NZ, Maoris used to capture, tattoo, kill, shrink the head, and sell to curious visitors, eating the rest. Eating people was a normal process. Captain Cook was killed and eaten on your very shores! Come to think of it, that reminds me that Hawaii is rightfully part of Cook Islands and therefore New Zealand. I forgot. I must get on with going up there to reclaim it. Summer is here now, so I'll have to do it next June or July when it's wet, cold, windy, dark and wintry in NZ. Property rights are a work in progress. Even personal freedom, let alone other property rights, is just a figment of imagination, written about more than experienced. Mqurice PS: The Americans via the Revolution ensured that slaves were held in bondage for another hundred years and treated as little more until over half way through this century. The natives fared little better [if as well].