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Politics : The Obama - Clinton Disaster -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GROUND ZERO™ who wrote (2872)	12/9/2008 6:34:38 PM
From: DuckTapeSunroof	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 103300

Re: "First of all, I'm not talking about broad cultural gestures that are taught and expressed... I'm referring to the micro expressions, the small facial reactions, these are very definitely universal, this is a known and scientific fact, these are involuntary gestures which all humans express..." Likely even HARDER to precisely quantify than broader, more macro and overt gestures. (But sounds like interesting work!) Question that is still laying out there though: Has anyone done sufficient work to establish what ARE, and what ARE NOT culturally-specific things in the area of 'micro-gestures'? Second point: a 'micro-gesture' (I assume) might be involuntary things such as pupil dilation --- but those type of things were not what you were displaying in the pics you posted. <g> What you posted showed BROAD apparent 'gestures', not 'micro', (but even there the pics were displayed totally without context... for example, where where they taken? Under what circumstances? If a guy is craning his neck to look up to folks in the top bleached seats for example, then one could easily select from low-angle-shot photos of the event to have the photo give an IMPRESSION of 'haughtiness' of some such. But, without CONTEXT, the photo would mean essentially nothing.... Might not even be a 'gesture' at all. :-) Re: there is a huge body of research and knowledge on this subject, I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly just because you're not familiar with it..." (I didn't 'dismiss' anything. What I said was: "show me the universality", "show me that such gestures have A) been cataloged, and their meaning is clear, and B) that there is not culturally different meanings. Or, if there is, that they have been accounted for....) "... for instance, the Rorscharch test is nothing but a standardized bunch of ten ink blots, but they tell you a wealth of information about the individual when the test is administered..." Excellent example! But I'd refer you to a different 'deep' psychological test, the Lucher Color Test --- which can also tell you a wealth of information about a test subjects inner thoughts... but which has been WIDELY SHOWN to be CULTURALLY ORIENTED. (Basically, applicable to Western European culture.) While NOT APPROPRIATE with folks from different cultural backgrounds. (For example... the WESTERN attitudes towards the color 'black' --- expressions of sadness, gloom, funereal overtones, etc., are totally different for someone from an Asian culture. For example for the Vietnamese 'black' represents celebrations and happy times... it's a color worn at weddings. :-)

To: GROUND ZERO™ who wrote (2872)	8/1/2009 1:58:34 PM
From: average joe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 103300

Sask. MD's Wikipedia posting of ink blots angers psychologists Friday, July 31, 2009 \| 12:06 PM CT James Heilman, a emergency room doctor in Moose Jaw, defends his online posting of the Rorschach test images because he considers them to be in the public domain. (CBC)An emergency room doctor from Saskatchewan has angered psychologists by posting images of the Rorschach ink blots used for psychological testing on the online encyclopedia Wikipedia. Dr. James Heilman, who works in Moose Jaw, posted the 10 symmetrical images under the Wikipedia entry for "Rorschach test" in June. The five black-and-white and five colour images are used by psychologists to help diagnose personality and emotional disorders. They show them to patients and ask them what they see and then analyze the answers. The test is also used to assess the psychological functions of criminals. Heilman, who is not a psychologist, posted the images on June 16, and within a few hours, they were removed by another Wikipedia contributor. The images were soon restored, and last week, another Wikipedia contributor added the most common interpretations patients provide for each image. As of Friday, the article had been locked by Wikipedia, with the images and interpretations left intact. Battle of the blobs Debate online and offline about the images has ensued, with some psychologists claiming the test has now been compromised, because with access to the images and interpretations, people may interpret them based on the most common responses rather than their own analysis. Karen Cohen, executive director of the Canadian Psychological Association, says publishing the ink blots and their most common interpretations could compromise the usefulness of the Rorschach test. (CBC)Some say revealing the images may also have legal ramifications. "Lawyers will very quickly become aware that this information is out there and invalidate the test — either coach their clients on how to respond or just simply question the results," said Keith Dobson, a clinical psychologist, at the University of Calgary. The group that represents Canadian psychologists has also raised concerns about the Wikipedia entry. "The overriding concern is that once any test shown to be reliable is released to the public, it really does compromise its usefulness," said Karen Cohen, executive director of the Canadian Psychological Association. Cohen added that posting the interpretations and images of the Rorschach test could open the door to compromising other psychological tests. Doctor defends actions One of the 10 ink blots created by Swiss psychologist Hermann Rorschach posted to Wikipedia. The most common interpretation of the image is two humans. (Public Domain)Heilman has defended his posting of the images, saying they are in the public domain. "They teach them routinely in every Psychology 110 class, which probably tens of thousands of people take every year," Heilman told CBC News Thursday. Heilman, who has been an editor with Wikipedia for one year, said he has been flooded with messages from psychologists around the world who are upset he published the images. "I think they feel insecure about their profession," Heilman said. 'I think they feel insecure about their profession.' —Dr. James Heilman, emergency doctor in Moose JawThe Rorschach test was created in 1921 by Swiss psychologist Hermann Rorschach. The images and interpretations have been published before in books, and a German publisher of the images has threatened to sue Wikipedia for posting them. Some psychologists, however, say the test has already lost its popularity and usefulness. "Many students do not learn the Rorschach," said University of Regina psychology professor Thomas Hadjistavropoulos. cbc.ca