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To: koan who wrote (69800)	1/9/2009 6:27:05 PM
From: TimF	1 Recommendation Respond to of 71178

They called the next 2,000 years the "Dark Ages" and it was when religion ruled. The Dark Ages where not anywhere close to 2000 years. They where not from the time of Aristotle or Socrates to relatively modern times. They where from the fall of the (western) Roman Empire (between about 372 AD and the final end in 476 AD) to either the end of the Early midevil period (around 1000) or the beginning of the Renaissance. That would give you something between maybe a century or two on the low end, and maybe 1100 years for the most extreme (and least "dark") possible definition. "Dark Age or Dark Ages is a term in historiography referring to a period of cultural decline or societal collapse that supposedly took place in Western Europe between the fall of Rome and the eventual recovery of learning.[1][2][3] The dating of the "Dark Ages" has always been fluid, but the concept was originally intended to denote the entire period between the fall of Rome in the 5th century and the "Renaissance" or "rebirth" of classical values.[4] Increased understanding of the accomplishments of the Middle Ages in the 19th century challenged the characterization of the entire period as one of darkness,[4] and thus the term is often restricted to periods within the Middle Ages, namely the Early Middle Ages; though this is disputed by most modern scholarship as well.[1] Modern scholarship tends to avoid using the phrase.[5]" en.wikipedia.org Even defined as ending around 1000, rather than 250 to 500 years later, the Dark Ages where not nearly so dark (compared to the surrounding time periods, not compared to living in a rich modern country) as they are often portrayed. The chaotic period during and immediately after the collapse of the Roman empire might have been rather "dark", but even during the early middle ages you had increasing order, technological development, and other improvements. Also the early middle ages where not significantly more dominated by religion, than much of ancient times, or than the high middle ages, late middle ages, or even the early renaissance. To get a serious decline of religious influence you need to get to early modern times.

To: koan who wrote (69800)	1/9/2009 9:36:15 PM
From: JF Quinnelly	Respond to of 71178

Religion, for hundreds of years killed anyone who dared to think. Galillao, Coprinicus and Bruno. Yes, as we know Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for refusing to concede that the Earth is the center of the universe, surrounded by the fixed stars on the celestial sphere. A cosmological model which the Catholic clerics who prosecuted him got from.... Ptolemy and Aristotle. Nicolaus Copernicus wasn't persecuted at all. Poland evidently lacked the Aristotelian-Ptolemaic cosmological hardliners who infested Rome. Copernicus peacefully developed his heliocentric model while being gainfully employed the whole time as a Catholic cleric, and died at the age of 70 without assistance from the Inquisition. Galileo wasn't executed, but he was forced to live under house arrest for the last years of his life. The unfortunate cases of Bruno and Galileo demonstrate the danger of Aristotelian-Ptolemaic fundamentalism, and I am hereby declaring a fatwha against all of its believers, may comets fall on their infidel heads.