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To: KyrosL who wrote (71001)	1/10/2009 7:14:02 AM
From: Snowshoe	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

I don't understand why we're hearing all these snide comments from TJ/Elmat/Mq and their ilk about the construction projects in the stimulus plan. The USA has vast amounts of infrastructure in a constant state of aging, repair, and upgrade. Locally we're rebuilding and upgrading old arterial streets to modern standards. The work is organized into 2-year projects covering 1/2 mile or so of street. In year I the pavement/curb-gutter/sidewalks are removed and the underground gas/electrical/communications/waste-water/storm-sewer are replaced with new quake-resistant utilities. In year II the road/curb-gutter/sidewalks are rebuilt into a new "traffic calming" design with center islands, turn lanes, and nice landscaping. The end result is a safer, more efficient, long-lasting investment in public infrastructure. It's much better than spending money on unemployment relief. State and local governments around the USA have thousands of such routine "bite-size" items in their project development pipelines that can be quickly advanced if new federal funding becomes available. Some of these projects have been deferred in recent years due to high costs during the recent boom years, so governments can get more done for their money under the current depression-like economic circumstances. With the private sector going down the tubes, it's logical to work on these government projects now.

To: KyrosL who wrote (71001)	1/10/2009 11:40:20 AM
From: Maurice Winn	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Kyros, I used to be a civil engineer, organizing and supervising such infrastructure contracts for a borough council [Onehunga Borough Council]. I know about infrastructure and how contracts work and the markets in infrastructure too. It's true that some private spending is wastrelism just as most public spending is wasted. The situation now is a matter of managing spending, getting back to work producing things other people value, repaying debt, punishing criminals, selling the assets of bankrupt companies and people to solvent people. Going nuts spending money the government doesn't have other than through borrowing and printing, diluting $ holders in a mega inflation is potentially literally lethal. Not only will the USA have a huge number of insolvent people,, they will have destroyed their financial system including the money which is used in that system. Great caution is required in such circumstances. Virtuous Victorian Values are essential. If governments announce that they want to double or triple or more the annual budgets for civil engineering contracts, as the asphalt man said, "Yahoo!!" The first thing they do is triple their prices because there will be far more contracts than they can handle. You can't just produce a new hot-mix machine, ditch digger, concrete pipe,, fibre network, over-night. Nor the people to operate them. Nor to do quality control on production. For all production, there is a production capacity. With open slather the usual government waste will be vast. It will be a lolly scramble of free money. As Larry Flynt said, "Hey, throw $10 billion our way too if you are going stupid with money". It's a sorry situation when the porn peddler has the most sense and the best sense of humour. Yes, some increased infrastructure work is a good idea. This month I hope to go for celebratory drives on two new roads - one to Maramarua and the other the extension of the northern motorway. Small though they are, they are something useful the government has done over the last 8 years in a sea of waste and these are no doubt badly built at far higher cost than they could have been. But at least they will work passably well, though the dopey managers of the northern road couldn't organize the toll system - insecure payments system and a too high price for an initial on-line payment and no congestion pricing mechanism. I like my Made in China products - better than I like the Made in NZ government waste. I bought a set of screw drivers and a lot more besides. Screwdrivers are really useful. I can fix things. I have an air compressor, water blaster, tools and hopefully cheap 3G and 4G mobile cyberspace. I don't buy junk, I buy things which I want. The asphalt contractor and Larry Flynt have got it right. When one's problem is spending too much borrowed money which isn't earning a return sufficient to repay the interest, let alone the principal, doing more of the same is not the solution. Useful roads are good, but the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Mqurice