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To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (56890)	1/13/2009 12:52:07 PM
From: mph	1 Recommendation Respond to of 57110

That was an episode on Boston Legal. A cop was being criminally prosecuted for injuring the brother of a kidnapper who could provide leads as to where his brother had taken the 5 year old child. He got the lead and found the brother with the child. Alive. He was acquitted.

To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (56890)	1/13/2009 1:17:56 PM
From: SmoothSail	Respond to of 57110

Well, that part's a no-brainer. But when it comes to the policies of a state, the line isn't so clear. The number one job of the president of the U.S. is to protect the people. If you take your example of saving a family member and the person in custody knows where and how long it is before that family member dies, you don't hesitate. Apply the same reasoning to the POTUS. To me it's a no-brainer. Get the information by whatever means it takes. Of course, waterboarding came to light because of the videotaping of Al Queda member Khalid Sheihk Mohammed who is the self admitted principal architect of the 9/11 attacks. He is also thought to have had, or has confessed to, a role in many of the most significant terrorist plots over the last twenty years, including the World Trade Center 1993 bombings, the Operation Bojinka plot, an aborted 2002 attack on Los Angeles' U.S. Bank Tower, the Bali nightclub bombings, the failed bombing of American Airlines Flight 63, the Millennium Plot, and the murder of Daniel Pearl. This is a bad guy. He had information that could prevent another attack on the U.S. To me, it's a no-brainer. Get that information by whatever means it takes. What are the consequences? Hundreds, possibly thousands of lives are saved vs. controversy and getting bad-mouthed by the NYT. There's waterboarding torture, which is pretty uncomfortable while it's happening but the person doesn't suffer any lasting effects from it, and then there's real torture that causes permanent injury and death. The thugocracy of Iran has been very successful in cowing their entire population through atrocious torture and repression, which they are now spreading throughout the world. The same has happened over and over again in history with other regimes too numerous to mention. In the past, the U.S. has enjoyed a reputation as the guys that do the right thing - at least that's the stated mission. But we've had rogues - My Lai, Abu Ghraib, etc. I sure there's been a slew of other violations that haven't come to light. When it gets out of hand as with Hitler, Stalin, Milosevic, Ceausescu, and others, people rise up. I don't think we're at that point.