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Politics : GOPwinger Lies/Distortions/Omissions/Perversions of Truth -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (152830)	1/23/2009 10:49:20 AM
From: one_less	2 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 173976

"Start right there, how does substance, ie matter, come from nothing??? Okeedokee. "The Law of Conservation of Matter says matter can neither be created nor destroyed... You want to argue with that?" I will be happy to explain to you how it works. I will not argue whatever prescripted argument(s) you have in mind, even though I know that will infuriate you to no end. You will just have to use your brain as a dynamic tool or you will just have to fail. Here go: You have shown the willingness to accept a big bang occurance of some sort. Logically then, it banged from either something or from nothing and as you follow the logic of before the befores there was another before etc ... you have to think of the possibility of a moment when there was nothing or that there was an eternity of befores. I will be happy to discuss the eternity of befores idea but as you requested, now we can consider the how, whys, and wherefores of something from nothing and then an explosion of universe coming from the something. (without religiosity of course) The universe of space and matter is observable to us because the distinct parts are noticeable from sun to particle by their positions in space. As they collapse into something more uniform and therefore less distinct, we are less able to notice them as relative parts of the universe separated by space...driven apart by differences. Their movements away from uniformity or collapses into uniformity are noticeable as space/time events. Through entropy diversity is diminished and distinct parts disappear, as does their distinct position in space. In other words they become so much a part of the whole that they have no identity of their own ... a distinct sound blending in becomes no sound, a ripple in the lake eventually disappears, and becomes 'nothing', it no longer exists as a distinct piece of the universe. There was a ripple now there is no ripple, there was a ripple now there is only the lake. What made the ripple is no longer distinct. What ever forces, particular bodies of liquid etc are not even distinct enough to identify. They are gone melded in to existence in some other way, but not identifiable or distinguishable. Absolute uniformity of the universe becomes a oneness that defies description as you will see in the following explanation. So a gumball state of the Universe, preparing to bang, represents a small very uniform view of existence bound in a tiny space, apparently emerging from nothing but distinct enough to say there it is a tiny pre-universe preparing to bang. If the gumball achieves perfect uniformity 'singularity' it needs no space at all and its material parts are indistinguishable. I use the term gumball because others have but the implication that we could identify a size is suspect. Science has not way to describe this state of existence except to refer to it as nothing. We can also speculate that time must have a similar course that leads to an end. In order for this to occur material in space must become so uniform that it is no longer distinguishable with no events taking place. At such a moment we can no longer notice time, or an occupying space. This is the premise behind black holes btw. So, for time to begin it must have an alpha state for which we have no mechanism of detection but we can allude to it as perfect and singular uniformity, then it must proceed as events of space and matter take place. For time to end, material and space must return to this singular uniformity allowing for zero occupation in space and thus no events or time. That would support a banging and collapsing claim. However it does not eliminate the possibility of repeated inflations toward the omega of existence and collapses to the alpha of existence. Neither possibility necessarily, obliterating the other, nor does it eliminate claims of an extra-temporal force. In any event nothing is definitely something and visa versa. less_