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Politics : GOPwinger Lies/Distortions/Omissions/Perversions of Truth -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Steve Dietrich who wrote (154369)	2/10/2009 6:23:26 AM
From: Brumar89	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 173976

I understand you prefer to put stuff in my mouth I didn't say and argue against that. en.wikipedia.org

To: Steve Dietrich who wrote (154369)	2/10/2009 2:28:30 PM
From: one_less	1 Recommendation Respond to of 173976

I think ‘so what?’ is one of the greatest questions we can pose. Math is considered basic to modern scientific explanation. We have the tools, logic, instrumentation, observation, analysis etc. However, we get no where until we leave room for mystery and wonder in the midst of science. It hasn’t always been so. “The abusive epithet mystikos logos ("mystical speech") was hurled at Pythagoras even in ancient times to discredit him.” en.wikipedia.org So what, we went on didn’t we. I know what a circle is and can explain it in lots of ways including mathematically, even though I will use pi which isn’t even a real number but can be used transcendentally. If you were to tell me there is no proof of a circle without using real numbers I would treat your comment the same as I do when you say there is no proof of God or eternity. Same with slope and tangent lines of slope even though ‘e’ (mathematical constant) is not a normal number but can be used transcendentally. We leave room for mystery and wonder in the midst of our science of the physical as well as the science of the eternal, because things may be evidenced in a multitude of ways. Was science held up by the mystery and wonder of pi or the center point of a circle? No. Tools of reason, of symbolism, language, allegory, moral conscience, and of awareness … to study, understand, and experience felicity and virtue are quite real. History tells us sun worshippers goofed by worshipping the symbol instead of the truth represented by their symbolisms. So what, History tsk, who knows if that is a just accounting or not? I don’t, but I get the point. In modern times we refer to scriptures that say don’t make images to worship, yet we have people bowing down before symbols of the very religions that order them not to anyway, even today. So what, some people are goof balls, some people are corrupt, some people are hypocrites, all people make mistakes. “The falsity of religion disproves the existence of God no more than the existence of a forged five pound bank note disproves the existence of the Bank of Scotland.” G.K. Chesterton The object for each of us, however, is to use the scientific tools we have been endowed with along with the instruments of their development to verify for ourselves the persistent and uncontradictory facts of the mysterious universe and the condition of an eternal soul.

To: Steve Dietrich who wrote (154369)	2/11/2009 10:24:25 AM
From: longnshort	1 Recommendation Respond to of 173976

Message 25403473

To: Steve Dietrich who wrote (154369)	2/11/2009 12:29:04 PM
From: one_less	2 Recommendations Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 173976

Sun Worship ... We are human beings and must speak from the limited realities of our human condition. There is, however, no reason we should limit ourselves by denying the very essential aspects that make us human. The use of logic, conscious awareness of our moral circumstance, the language and wisdom communicated by our fellow man, the use of abstract thought and symbols for example are natural endowments of humanity. To provide evidence of anything eternal we must speak from our finite and limited condition of humanness. But we have the naturally endowed tools if we choose to use them. For more than one reason natural analogy, symbolic language and parable are used to describe the infinite in finite terms and to make the truth plain to our finite minds. I doubt I can do the Sun worshippers justice but I have been gathering and paraphrasing some ideas about ‘Fire’ as a symbol of life. I am sure an ancient devotee would do much better. Fire is the source of it's own life, all consuming, ever changing yet ever remaining the same and the light from the Sun's fire is life giving. The Sun may be considered a big ball of fire and the light being emitted is definitely the life giving source to all biological organisms on this planet. The Sun then is fire, light, and life. This is certainly observable and as a primitive form of science, very logical. No fire with it’s emissions of light and you have no warmth, no radiant beauty, no nature, no sustenance, no comfort and ultimately no life. No respect for the laws of nature with regard to fire and you will see that it can be terrible and consuming in its power. No way … to have plant and animal life thriving in abundance, the light must shine and all must receive it in its proper life-giving form and function according to the right nature of each individual. You don’t touch the fire of the Sun or even look directly into its center to know it as you would another human being, or the things of this world. You must be satisfied to live separately and receive it’s life giving blessings from another realm, a distant and separate Earth. Separate as you are, the Sun is the source of all biological life, your's included, a scientific fact. We don’t deny our relationship with the Sun, we wisely obey the laws of its fire and light and we are the living conscious witnesses and evidence of that fact. Well most of us obey the laws of nature but not all, some are disobedient, some bring pollution, destruction, and devastation to our circumstance and they do it by choice … a choice we are all free to make. We can accept the light into our hearts and minds and transcribe the giving nature, the nature of well being to ourselves and other creatures, the nature of freely giving and shining on all. We've been born with the power to use our nature in this way, as the spiritual realization of the nature we live under. Or we can abuse the nature of our light and for corrupt and destructive purposes. Hypocrites, liars, mischievous scoundrels use their light in this way ... and the fire consumes them. However, the Sun in this presentation is only symbolic and we will all laugh if we see you bowing and scraping before a picture of the Sun.